The Lexington ATC was NOT doing traffic count after he cleared Comair 5191 for takeoff

Newps wrote:



Sam Spade wrote:


ATC provides separation when working IFR aircraft. The local
controllers' duties are different.


No they are not.

There aren't any VFR towers these days? There aren't any aircraft not
on VFR flight plans these days?



They provide sequencing and safe use

of runways and takiways. "Separation" in the context of IFR
separation is not part of the local job when the Class D area is VFR.



It most certainly is and the weather is irrelevant.


Visual separation of IFR aircraft is no longer used?

Sam Spade wrote:
Newps wrote:



Sam Spade wrote:


ATC provides separation when working IFR aircraft. The local
controllers' duties are different.


No they are not.

There aren't any VFR towers these days?




You said the local controllers duties are different, saying they do not
provide separation. The local controller ensures initial IFR separation
between IFR arrivals and departures.






"Separation" in the context of IFR
separation is not part of the local job when the Class D area is VFR.



It most certainly is and the weather is irrelevant.


Visual separation of IFR aircraft is no longer used?


You said separation is not part of the local job. IFR separation is
always part of the job. The weather is irrelevant. If visual
separation is used you have to have approved separation both before and
after the application of visual.

Newps wrote:


Sam Spade wrote:

Newps wrote:



Sam Spade wrote:


ATC provides separation when working IFR aircraft. The local
controllers' duties are different.



No they are not.


There aren't any VFR towers these days?





You said the local controllers duties are different, saying they do not
provide separation. The local controller ensures initial IFR separation
between IFR arrivals and departures.







"Separation" in the context of IFR

separation is not part of the local job when the Class D area is VFR.




It most certainly is and the weather is irrelevant.


Visual separation of IFR aircraft is no longer used?



You said separation is not part of the local job. IFR separation is
always part of the job. The weather is irrelevant. If visual
separation is used you have to have approved separation both before and
after the application of visual.


When I am cleared for a visual I am told to maintain my own separation.
I guess you are referring to the tower applying visual separation
without telling me?

I still fail to understand where a VFR tower does other than release
aircraft and accept them as the IFR controlling facility tells them.

I understand that local controller at an IFR tower does some limited
separation duties, again in accordance with the IFR controlling agency,
whether it be a TRACON downstairs or a center.

Those duties are quite limited compared to runway and ground movement
activities.

Sam Spade wrote:

When I am cleared for a visual I am told to maintain my own separation.


If you see the airplane in front of you, yes, you are told to follow it.
Or if the aircraft is landing on a different runway you would be told
to maintain visual.


I guess you are referring to the tower applying visual separation
without telling me?

They can, between you and a departure.




I still fail to understand where a VFR tower does other than release
aircraft and accept them as the IFR controlling facility tells them.


They are responsible for the initial separation, either as specified by
the radar facility or in a letter of agreement.

Newps wrote:



I still fail to understand where a VFR tower does other than release
aircraft and accept them as the IFR controlling facility tells them.



They are responsible for the initial separation, either as specified by
the radar facility or in a letter of agreement.


I don't want to whip this puppy to death, but if ACME TRACON tells PDQ
VFR tower to "release N1234C at 24 minutes past the hour, void after 27
past the hour" what possible separation duties is the tower performing
other than to comply with the release time, which assures the separation
the TRACON is providing will, in fact, happen.

Sam Spade wrote:


I don't want to whip this puppy to death, but if ACME TRACON tells PDQ
VFR tower to "release N1234C at 24 minutes past the hour, void after 27
past the hour"


They don't give a release like that to a tower. That's FSS stuff only.
The tower will be given the release with any restrictions such as
altitude and/or heading.



what possible separation duties is the tower performing
other than to comply with the release time, which assures the separation
the TRACON is providing will, in fact, happen.


The release will be given and the tower has to separate the departure(s)
from any arrivals already talking to the tower. The tower has to ensure
initial separation from successive departures, especially diverging
runways where the departures then have to turn back toward each other to
get to their radar assigned headings.

Newps wrote in
:

They don't give a release like that to a tower. That's FSS stuff
only.

FSS gives releases?????

I was always told FSS passes on FSS clearances and you get a ATC clearance
through FSS.

Allen

A Lieberma wrote:
Newps wrote in
:

They don't give a release like that to a tower. That's FSS stuff
only.

FSS gives releases?????


It's the type of release given to a FSS.

Sam Spade writes:

I don't want to whip this puppy to death ...

All I see is dry puppy-shaped bones.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Newps wrote:



Sam Spade wrote:


I don't want to whip this puppy to death, but if ACME TRACON tells PDQ
VFR tower to "release N1234C at 24 minutes past the hour, void after
27 past the hour"



They don't give a release like that to a tower. That's FSS stuff only.
The tower will be given the release with any restrictions such as
altitude and/or heading.



what possible separation duties is the tower performing

other than to comply with the release time, which assures the
separation the TRACON is providing will, in fact, happen.



The release will be given and the tower has to separate the departure(s)
from any arrivals already talking to the tower. The tower has to ensure
initial separation from successive departures, especially diverging
runways where the departures then have to turn back toward each other to
get to their radar assigned headings.

That sounds like an IFR tower.