Is it just me or does this seem a little close to the crowd?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYfhC9ft_hk

The question should be "isn't that crown a little too close to the runway?"


"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYfhC9ft_hk

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYfhC9ft_hk


It's not you. I received a tape on this aircraft yesterday from within
our flight safety community for air shows. He came extremely close to
catching a wingtip on both the takeoff and a later pass; both times to
the left.
In our opinion, this was a VERY close call and totally unnecessary.
Things are bad enough in the demonstration and display community this
year without a pilot like this one making it worse.
It's being investigated.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYfhC9ft_hk

It's not you. I received a tape on this aircraft yesterday from within
our flight safety community for air shows. He came extremely close to
catching a wingtip on both the takeoff and a later pass; both times to
the left.
In our opinion, this was a VERY close call and totally unnecessary.
Things are bad enough in the demonstration and display community this
year without a pilot like this one making it worse.
It's being investigated.

10 pages and growing of discussion over on
PPRuNe.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=292517

It's just you. The plane flies parallel and with sufficient distance to
the crowd, so even if he'd hit the ground, nobody would have been in
danger. The folks you see on the ground are not spectators but airshow
stuff or pilots.

Whether the pilot put himself in danger is another question. I can't and
won't judge it, but even if he were, that's what airshow pilots do
routinely.

And concerning Dudley's "our flight safety community for air shows", I'm
looking forward with interest what they intend to investigate about a
Portugese registered airplane flying in Portugal...

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
It's just you. The plane flies parallel and with sufficient distance to
the crowd, so even if he'd hit the ground, nobody would have been in
danger. The folks you see on the ground are not spectators but airshow
stuff or pilots.

Yes, and heaven knows that it is acceptable to put pilots and their parked
aircraft at an unnecessary risk.


Whether the pilot put himself in danger is another question. I can't and
won't judge it, but even if he were, that's what airshow pilots do
routinely.

No. Their goal is to entertain the crowd but NOT put themselves in danger.



And concerning Dudley's "our flight safety community for air shows", I'm
looking forward with interest what they intend to investigate about a
Portugese registered airplane flying in Portugal...

While there is no unified set of rules for airshows, there are governing
bodies in all developed countries. Those governing bodies usually react
with disapproval on stupid pilot tricks (at airshows or otherwise) which put
the public at risk.

Stefan wrote:
It's just you. The plane flies parallel and with sufficient distance to
the crowd, so even if he'd hit the ground, nobody would have been in
danger. The folks you see on the ground are not spectators but airshow
stuff or pilots.

Whether the pilot put himself in danger is another question. I can't and
won't judge it, but even if he were, that's what airshow pilots do
routinely.

And concerning Dudley's "our flight safety community for air shows", I'm
looking forward with interest what they intend to investigate about a
Portugese registered airplane flying in Portugal...

It most certainly isn't him as I said.
The issues involved with air show flight safety involve much more than
crowd safety. It involves ANY incident or occurrence involved with
display and demonstration flying and that venue's peripheral issues.
In this case, this incident is of "concern" if nothing else, to the
entire demonstration community.
There exists within the air show community a HUGE mailing list comprised
of both current and ex- display pilots who devote copious amounts of
their time discussing ways to make the venue safer for everyone concerned.
You may see the result of this "inside communication" going on within
the community by obtaining a copy of Gen Des Barker's book "Zero Error
Margin"; a complete and in-depth study of air show accidents over the
past 3 decades with input in this volume from hundreds of display pilots
military and civilian, past and present, including myself.
I will be most happy to supply you with information to obtain this book
by back channel contact if you wish. I believe it is still available
after the first printing.
Since the display communities reach is international, the event in
Portugal is nothing unusual for us to be discussing; same for the
Hurricane accident this week in the UK. Both are now under review, and
recommendations no doubt will be made through proper channels that
addresses the pertinent issues in the hope that the flight safety
picture will be enhanced for the future.
It is partially through the input of the air show community's
representatives that changes are suggested to and implemented by the
various governing agencies throughout the world who control the
demonstration safety issues.
It's a tough business and there are many of us out here who have
dedicated our lives to helping in any way possible the betterment of
flight safety on the air show demonstration circuit.
This year has been especially hard and many lives have been lost.
It is in part the observation, and involvement of the world's display
pilots, in constant communication with each other, who are trying to
make it a safer environment for all involved.


--
Dudley Henriques

On Sep 20, 2:31 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:

In our opinion, this was a VERY close call and totally unnecessary.
Things are bad enough in the demonstration and display community this
year without a pilot like this one making it worse.
It's being investigated.

I believe that watching the videos alone isn't givng a clear picture
here. The airfield in question I suspect has geographical aspects
that provide the spectators a different perception of risk than that
which is actually present. Ie, the other side of the runway is lower
than the rest of the airfield. The aircraft parked on the flightline
also contribute a bit to the illusion I think.

The pass was certainly low and close to the crowd, but I don't think
it was too much lower than I've seen here in New Zealand from similar
heavies (727 and 757 from the RNZAF mainly).

Kyle Boatright wrote:

danger. The folks you see on the ground are not spectators but airshow
staff or pilots.

Yes, and heaven knows that it is acceptable to put pilots and their parked
aircraft at an unnecessary risk.

The spectators are usually laypersons and can't judge the risks, so it's
the organisator's and the pilot's responibility to protect them.
Contributing airshow pilots however can judge the risks (I would hope!),
and if they decide to deliberately stand there during a flyby, it's
their choice.

Whether the pilot put himself in danger is another question. I can't and
won't judge it, but even if he were, that's what airshow pilots do
routinely.

No. Their goal is to entertain the crowd but NOT put themselves in danger.

You can read, can't you? Where did I say it was their goal to endanger
themselves? It's their goal to entertain (and probably also a bit to
show off, I dare to assume), and to reach that goal, they accept to take
risks.

BTW, they take routinely much bigger risks than that low flying
airliner. Flying inverted a couple of feet above the runway is *much*
more risky, yet done routinely at airshows and I've yet to see a post
about that here. Probably the most stupid thing done at airshows is the
"inverted ribbon cut", but you see it everywhere and nobody seems to
care. E.g. http://youtube.com/watch?v=sCbwRzgJLhk. In that particular
video you also see one low level pull in which the pilot nearly stalls
the plane. Most dangerous at that altitude, but people don't even
realize the situation. The same goes for those stupid low level flicks
shortly after take off. E.g. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Uy0KkqFf_bU
Extremely risky, because in a flick you have *never* 100% control. Yet
nobody seems to care. But an airliner flying low... wow, *this* is going
to cause discussions! It reminds me somewhat of the quality of certain
newspaper reports which have been discussed here on a regular basis.

BTW, I don't say that I like such displays. Actually I hate them, and I
don't attend airshows for that very reason. I do attend aerobatic
competitions, though, because they are flown at a safe altitude.
Besides, the flying there is mostly better (i.e. more precise), albeit
less spectacular.

bodies in all developed countries. Those governing bodies usually react
with disapproval on stupid pilot tricks (at airshows or otherwise) which put
the public at risk.

You can read, can't you? It was my point that the public wasn't put at risk.

Stefan

Here's a couple more angles.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-air-show.html
Crash Lander
--
Straight and Level Down Under.
http://www.straightandleveldownunder.net/