Question for US Rules committee on AH capability within LX NAV computers?

Kurt, So unsurprisingly you want me to go away. Got it. But not going to happen. Do you have a LX product? Sorry it is nothing personal...

I want to see everyone's feet held to the same fire. The standard has been set clearly by USRC. If other software/hardware possesses AH capability (of any level of usefulness) the they must be forced to build a special version of firmware or software. LXNAV (and any other "offenders") should be "required" to provide its customers a special version as the others have been forced to do. Reason: nobody is going to check under the panel and the technology is very capable. Double standards are afoot. We have a big double standard in the case of LXNAV vs. Butterfly, XCSoar or LK8000.

The USRC has opened this can of worms. But they are only forcing a couple parties to eat them. We all must eat the same worms. Now lets dig in! Ummmmm!

Sean
F2

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 1:24:07 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
Sean, why are you the only person out there making a huge mountain out of this molehill?

The rule is simple - don't show up with a gyro AH or T&B (or the ability to display USEFUL attitude data) if you want to race. Yes that means no LX with AHRS. You also can't show up with 18M wings at a 15M race - its the RULE!

All your whining about smart phones and PDAs is exactly that - whining. Without gyros, none of them display USEFUL attitude data. That includes the latest smartphones. Just because it has a pretty "HUD" app doesn't mean you can use it to cloud fly! And no reasonable CD is going to waste the time worrying about iPhone apps or what version of XCLKSoar8000 you are using!

If you cloud fly and get caught you will get booted, regardless of what you have in your cockpit - so stay out of the clouds!

If you feel so stongly about changing the rule to allow gyros in the cockpit during a race, try building support from the racing community then approaching the RC with a reasoned argument and proposed solution.

And to be honest, I wouldn't mind having a backup AH in my cockpit - but it's just not a big deal for me.

But your approach of throwing a temper tantrum on RAS is REALLY counterproductive, IMO! - well, except for starting the hissy fit between Max and Paolo - as a SeeYouMobile user that was entertaining!

OK, I'll shut up now. Good luck with your contest at Ionia - I really enjoyed the times I raced there - great location and great people.

Cheers,

Kirk
66

Sean Fidler wrote:
Max! Why did you not use the special US rules icon! Please consider updating! Its priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-)

You mean the one with the ostrich? ;-)

Anyway, this is not an official build, it was not published by the
XCSoar project. It's open source, anybody can modify XCSoar and
publish modified versions.

Max

Nice try Dave but no cigar.

A special firmware must guarantee that LXNAV's AH system cannot be switched back on in the night, just as Buttefly has been forced to do with their Vario...

Cant have double standards here...no no!

The special firmware should be timestamped and easily identifiable for the CD or other pilots wishing to ensure cloud flying cannot occur without great personal risks!

You know its not personal in any way...:-)

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 2:19:32 PM UTC-4, Dave wrote:
On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:50:21 AM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
What is the definition of AH toy? AH's that have a chance that they may actually allow cloud flying and AH's that have no chance?

The "toy" is not the problem. The problem (as this thread intends to point out) is the useless, outdated, nonenforceable, unenforced and unnecessary rule and all the hassle it is causing everyone (example: you trying to communicate with the rules committee on how ineffective XC soars AH is). The rule has no fundamental or measurable benefit other than making the traditional guard happy (who really do not understand the capability of the technology in my opinion) and irritating alot of people all over the world.

The rule should be for fixed gyro's only (systems which might actually work)...not cell phones with unfixed, un-calibrated solid state gyro's designed for rudimentary 1g gaming. The rule should be strictly, actively enforced or removed entirely.

Back to topic. LX NAV's system is clearly usable for cloud flying? Were is my statement on USRC policy outlawing its presence at contests? Hello RC...I know your'e reading this... We are waiting..............

Sean
F2

What are you waiting for? The policy published in Feb fits this perfectly..

Don't bring an LX with the external AHRS plugged into it. If you must, disable it and get a waiver. Its up to the individual competitor to get the waiver. Its not initiated by the RC.

-Dave

Can you send me the file in as much resolution as possible? I would like to make T-Shirts for contests this year!

smfidlerATgmail.com

Long live the resistance!

SeanOn Wednesday, April 4, 2012 2:52:07 PM UTC-4, Max Kellermann wrote:
Sean Fidler wrote:
Max! Why did you not use the special US rules icon! Please consider updating! Its priceless!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-)

You mean the one with the ostrich? ;-)

Anyway, this is not an official build, it was not published by the
XCSoar project. It's open source, anybody can modify XCSoar and
publish modified versions.

Max

Evan Ludeman wrote:
It doesn't, of course. FWIW I loaded 6.3 onto a Samsung Galaxy Player
last night (w SS gyros & accelerometers) so I could show the RC the
silly little toylike display that is causing so much brouhaha... and
it's still broken, doesn't display at all.

I never claimed that XCSoar's horizon in any version actually works or
is useful, did I?

The people who suggest that XCSoar will be banned should first do
their homework check if any version of XCSoar really violates the FAI
Sporting Code. It's not a good idea to do this whole discussion based
on rumors. That just produces large amounts of hot air. On the other
hand, entities producing hot air can be very useful for our sport ;-)

Max

Sean Fidler wrote:
Can you send me the file in as much resolution as possible? I would like to make T-Shirts for contests this year!

Unfortunately, the ostrich was copied from a copyrighted image which
we are not allowed to redistribute, and nobody took the time to
find/create a free image. Volunteers welcome.

Max

On Apr 4, 3:06*pm, Max Kellermann wrote:
Evan Ludeman wrote:
It doesn't, of course. *FWIW I loaded 6.3 onto a Samsung Galaxy Player
last night (w SS gyros & accelerometers) so I could show the RC the
silly little toylike display that is causing so much brouhaha... and
it's still broken, doesn't display at all.

I never claimed that XCSoar's horizon in any version actually works or
is useful, did I?

The people who suggest that XCSoar will be banned should first do
their homework check if any version of XCSoar really violates the FAI
Sporting Code. *It's not a good idea to do this whole discussion based
on rumors. *That just produces large amounts of hot air. *On the other
hand, entities producing hot air can be very useful for our sport ;-)

Max

I have not yet seen a version of XCSoar that I would trust to fly
"without reference to ground", even in an emergency. In fact, I have
not yet seen a version of XCS that displays anything more than a
static picture of an AH display, and most of them don't even do that.
So again, I see no point to having this bit of code in there and
arousing suspicion. It's completely pointless.

FWIW, I'm flying XCS in competition, very shortly, at R5N. I don't
expect to have an argument about that. I'll use the "No Horizon"
version, though as I've said, it doesn't appear to make any functional
difference. If the CD or RC or any other contest personnel have
questions or concerns about XCS, I'll do my best to answer them
completely and honestly. (and it would be great to get that taken
care of ahead of time)

T8

On Apr 4, 1:24*pm, "kirk.stant" wrote:
Sean, why are you the only person out there making a huge mountain out of this molehill?

The rule is simple - don't show up with a gyro AH or T&B (or the ability to display USEFUL attitude data) if you want to race. *Yes that means no LX with AHRS. You also can't show up with 18M wings at a 15M race - its the RULE!

All your whining about smart phones and PDAs is exactly that - whining. *Without gyros, none of them display USEFUL attitude data. *That includes the latest smartphones. *Just because it has a pretty "HUD" app doesn't mean you can use it to cloud fly! And no reasonable CD is going to waste the time worrying about iPhone apps or what version of XCLKSoar8000 you are using!

If you cloud fly and get caught you will get booted, regardless of what you have in your cockpit - so stay out of the clouds!

If you feel so stongly about changing the rule to allow gyros in the cockpit during a race, try building support from the racing community then approaching the RC with a reasoned argument and proposed solution.

And to be honest, I wouldn't mind having a backup AH in my cockpit - but it's just not a big deal for me.

But your approach of throwing a temper tantrum on RAS is REALLY counterproductive, IMO! - well, except for starting the hissy fit between Max and Paolo - as a SeeYouMobile user that was entertaining!

OK, I'll shut up now. *Good luck with your contest at Ionia - I really enjoyed the times I raced there - great location and great people.

Cheers,

Kirk
66

If you want a backup, try this. I bet it would even get past the
strip search.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...iteturn003.php

Todd

On Wednesday, April 4, 2012 12:58:48 PM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
Nice try Dave but no cigar.

A special firmware must guarantee that LXNAV's AH system cannot be switched back on in the night, just as Buttefly has been forced to do with their Vario...

Cant have double standards here...no no!

The special firmware should be timestamped and easily identifiable for the CD or other pilots wishing to ensure cloud flying cannot occur without great personal risks!

You know its not personal in any way...:-)


It can't be switched on in the night if its not there. This capability only comes with an external gyro package. Even I could tell if its there or not with a quick visual inspection.

If the gyro package is installed, it must be disabled and the same waiver requirements apply to LX as any other instrument. Check the policy again. Sounds like LX read the policy and made changes to support a waiver without your help.

So what response are you waiting for from the RC? Did you ask for a waiver?

-Dave

On Apr 4, 3:54*pm, toad wrote:
On Apr 4, 1:24*pm, "kirk.stant" wrote:









Sean, why are you the only person out there making a huge mountain out of this molehill?

The rule is simple - don't show up with a gyro AH or T&B (or the ability to display USEFUL attitude data) if you want to race. *Yes that means no LX with AHRS. You also can't show up with 18M wings at a 15M race - its the RULE!

All your whining about smart phones and PDAs is exactly that - whining. *Without gyros, none of them display USEFUL attitude data. *That includes the latest smartphones. *Just because it has a pretty "HUD" app doesn't mean you can use it to cloud fly! And no reasonable CD is going to waste the time worrying about iPhone apps or what version of XCLKSoar8000 you are using!

If you cloud fly and get caught you will get booted, regardless of what you have in your cockpit - so stay out of the clouds!

If you feel so stongly about changing the rule to allow gyros in the cockpit during a race, try building support from the racing community then approaching the RC with a reasoned argument and proposed solution.

And to be honest, I wouldn't mind having a backup AH in my cockpit - but it's just not a big deal for me.

But your approach of throwing a temper tantrum on RAS is REALLY counterproductive, IMO! - well, except for starting the hissy fit between Max and Paolo - as a SeeYouMobile user that was entertaining!

OK, I'll shut up now. *Good luck with your contest at Ionia - I really enjoyed the times I raced there - great location and great people.

Cheers,

Kirk
66

If you want a backup, try this. *I bet it would even get past the
strip search.http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...iteturn003.php

Todd

lol. that might even be crappier than some of the phone apps I've
seen.

T8