Engine Out Landing. Big Deal?

I almost snickered a bit after watching this "real life" story about
how a pilot had to land his plane after loosing engine power at 500
feet. After 35 years of flying gliders this looks normal to me. Maybe
power planes are really hard to fly. This guy has 4700 hours and he
overshot his turn onto the runway and lands way left of the center
line.
I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.
http://flash.aopa.org/asf/pilotstori...turn/index.cfm

"soartech" wrote in message
...
I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.

I have a lot more time in gliders than in airplanes, but I wouldn't brag too
much in advance about my likelihood of making a safe power-off emergency landing
in an airplane. Flying a 7 to 1 airplane with little or no glide path control
takes a somewhat different skill set than doing the same with a 30 to 1 glider
with good spoilers.and (likely) a lower approach speed.

Vaughn

On Mar 25, 12:15*pm, "vaughn" wrote:
"soartech" wrote in message

...

I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.

I have a lot more time in gliders than in airplanes, but I wouldn't brag too
much in advance about my likelihood of making a safe power-off emergency landing
in an airplane. *Flying a 7 to 1 airplane with little or no glide path control
takes a somewhat different skill set than doing the same with a 30 to 1 glider
with good spoilers.and (likely) a lower approach speed.

Vaughn

this.

all my power flying friends seem to think i don't have any reason to
sweat an engine failure in an airplane now since i have glider
experience. not so. having an engine failure at 500 ft in an
airplane and ending up with a successful landing is something to be
proud of, I think. You have, at best, 60 seconds to make all the
right decisions from that altitude. You'll probably spend at least
1/3 of that time realizing what went wrong and then recovering from
the mistakes you made during that realization period. then you have
(at best) 40 seconds to determine a course of action and execute.
I'll take a real glider any day.

On Mar 25, 10:51*am, soartech wrote:
I almost snickered a bit after watching this "real life" story about
how a pilot had to land his plane after loosing engine power at 500
feet. After 35 years of flying gliders this looks normal to me. Maybe
power planes are really hard to fly. This guy has 4700 hours and he
overshot his turn onto the runway and lands way left of the center
line.
I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.http://flash.aopa.org/asf/pilotstori...turn/index.cfm

Sad thing is the AOPA site never mention the obvious error that if he
had turned left rather than right he could have used the cross runway
in a smooth 270 degree turn rather than the 360 degree turn required
to go back to the same runway.

On Mar 25, 12:26*pm, Tony wrote:
On Mar 25, 12:15*pm, "vaughn" wrote:

"soartech" wrote in message

....

I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.

I have a lot more time in gliders than in airplanes, but I wouldn't brag too
much in advance about my likelihood of making a safe power-off emergency landing
in an airplane. *Flying a 7 to 1 airplane with little or no glide path control
takes a somewhat different skill set than doing the same with a 30 to 1 glider
with good spoilers.and (likely) a lower approach speed.

Vaughn

this.

all my power flying friends seem to think i don't have any reason to
sweat an engine failure in an airplane now since i have glider
experience. *not so. *having an engine failure at 500 ft in an
airplane and ending up with a successful landing is something to be
proud of, I think. *You have, at best, 60 seconds to make all the
right decisions from that altitude. *You'll probably spend at least
1/3 of that time realizing what went wrong and then recovering from
the mistakes you made during that realization period. *then you have
(at best) 40 seconds to determine a course of action and execute.
I'll take a real glider any day.

Agreed. A normal approach in a glider is very similar to a power on
approach in a plane - as long as you don't need to go around.

If you want to simulate a power off approach, take a glider with real
effective spoilers (the old L13 Blanik will do nicely, not sure if the
L23's spoilers are as good), get off tow over the field, pull on full
spoilers, then fly the pattern at 60 knots or so (without closing the
spoilers). Even more dramatic with a glider like a 1-34 or 2-32 with
terminal velocity dive brakes.

Actually, its a pretty good training maneuver, and fun - but remember,
in a glider you can still close the spoilers if you pooch it; but in a
power plane with an engine failure, you have to get it right the first
time.

This difference may be why power-only pilots think glider pilots are
either 1. Stupid or 2. Extremely Skilled!

Kirk

On Mar 25, 10:51*am, soartech wrote:
I almost snickered a bit after watching this "real life" story about
how a pilot had to land his plane after loosing engine power at 500
feet. After 35 years of flying gliders this looks normal to me. Maybe
power planes are really hard to fly. This guy has 4700 hours and he
overshot his turn onto the runway and lands way left of the center
line.
I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.http://flash.aopa.org/asf/pilotstori...turn/index.cfm

Too bad the AOPA site did not point out the obvious error that the
pilot could have made a 270 degree left turn onto the cross runway and
been much safer than the 360 degree turns required to go back to the
same runway.

On Mar 25, 10:26*am, Tony wrote:
On Mar 25, 12:15*pm, "vaughn" wrote:

"soartech" wrote in message

....

I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.

I have a lot more time in gliders than in airplanes, but I wouldn't brag too
much in advance about my likelihood of making a safe power-off emergency landing
in an airplane. *Flying a 7 to 1 airplane with little or no glide path control
takes a somewhat different skill set than doing the same with a 30 to 1 glider
with good spoilers.and (likely) a lower approach speed.

Hi Gang
Having landed out in a Lanair ES after a fire and engine out in a
tiny field on the western slope of the Sierras where trees dominated
the scenery and surviving I believe my gliding experience greatly
enhanced my survivability. With a glider at all times one has a
bailout site in mind and each landing must be correct. No going around
for a second chance. I sense that most power plane only pilots do not
put the emphasis that we glider pilots do of mentally planning a
landing. Too low push the throttle forward. Too high a go around.
Check out the NTSB accident reports on missed landings. I am certain
that for about 50% of the missed landings if an experienced glider
pilot had been PIC the outcomes would have been different. I really
think my own incident with the Lancair would have been very different
and tragic without my glider experience.
Dave


...

I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.


Vaughn

this.

all my power flying friends seem to think i don't have any reason to
sweat an engine failure in an airplane now since i have glider
experience. *not so. *having an engine failure at 500 ft in an
airplane and ending up with a successful landing is something to be
proud of, I think. *You have, at best, 60 seconds to make all the
right decisions from that altitude. *You'll probably spend at least
1/3 of that time realizing what went wrong and then recovering from
the mistakes you made during that realization period. *then you have
(at best) 40 seconds to determine a course of action and execute.
I'll take a real glider any day.

Hi Gang
Having landed out in a Lanair ES after a fire and engine out in a
tiny field on the western slope of the Sierras where trees dominated
the scenery and surviving I believe my gliding experience greatly
enhanced my survivability. With a glider at all times one has a
bailout site in mind and each landing must be correct. No going around
for a second chance. I sense that most power plane only pilots do not
put the emphasis that we glider pilots do of planning a landing. Too
low push the throttle forward. Too high a go around. Check out the
NTSB accident reports on missed landings. I am certain that for about
50% of the missed landings if an experienced glider pilot had been PIC
the outcomes would have been different. I really think my own incident
with the Lancair would have been very different and tragic without my
glider experience.
Dave


...

I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.

At 16:51 25 March 2011, soartech wrote:
I almost snickered a bit after watching this "real life" story about
how a pilot had to land his plane after loosing engine power at 500
feet. After 35 years of flying gliders this looks normal to me. Maybe
power planes are really hard to fly. This guy has 4700 hours and he
overshot his turn onto the runway and lands way left of the center
line.
I think the solution is that every new power pilot should be required
to have 20 flights in gliders before even stepping into a plane with
an engine.
http://flash.aopa.org/asf/pilotstori...turn/index.cfm

As A Commercial Glider Pilot who happens to fly alot of Cessna single
engine stuff the above comment that Mr. Soartech was snickering at one of
our fellow airmans ,less than stellar performance, in a aircraft
Completely different than a glider , in what is a hair raising, scary,
potentially fatal situation,is sad to me.
A 500' engine out is a serious thing. In a glider at 500' you can glide
a couple of miles, easy. At something like a 120 ft/ min sink rate. I would
like to load Mr. Soartech in a C172 full of fuel, and at max climb
attitude,full power, turn off the mags and see how he does. First of all,
if you ball it, up the odds are you are going to turn into a fireball.
Second, by the time you react, with a surprising very large attitude nose
down shove required on the yoke, which you NEVER do in normal flight ops,
the airspeed is going to be low and the ground coming up very fast, oh yea
and you might have some people in there with you, like your kids. Its not
quite like your at 500' at 65 knots in your LS 4 let me tell you. So
lets not be to harsh on our fellow aviators, after all the history books
are full of World Class level Multi Nationals winners/instructors in
gliders that have killed themselves and we continue to do so at a very
steady and consistent pace.
We land short, we forget to lower the gear, we forget to connect the
controls, we forget to turn on the 02, were on the wrong frequency, We
hit our friends in thermals we land in the trees! the list goes on.
Lets be careful out there this season and watch out for each other.

Yes, a 500 ft engine out on takeoff in a light plane is more like a
125 ft rope break. Now do a 180 turn around to land.

Try to simulate this emergency some time if you have power license or
a friend to fly with. Just be prepared to see how fast the ground
comes up.