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Where to get Winched?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 6th 12, 12:38 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
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Posts: 365
Default Where to get Winched?

Where in the South East US of A might one go to get a winch launch endorsement? ALSO, in general how much runway is needed for an adequate winch launch? What might the minimum runway length be?

Walt
  #2  
Old June 6th 12, 02:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill D
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Posts: 746
Default Where to get Winched?

On Jun 6, 5:38*am, Walt Connelly
wrote:
Where in the South East US of A might one go to get a winch launch
endorsement? *ALSO, in general how much runway is needed for an adequate
winch launch? *What might the minimum runway length be?

Walt

--
Walt Connelly


You can expect to achieve a height of a little less than half the
runway length - more if launching into a headwind. This assumes a
glider with 30:1 and a modern winch.

You might try contacting the Carolina Soaring Association.
  #3  
Old June 6th 12, 05:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Chris
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Posts: 12
Default Where to get Winched?

Walt Connelly wrote:

ALSO, in general how much runway is needed for an adequate
winch launch? What might the minimum runway length be?


We in europe do winch launching as the standard procedure. Our airfield has
1200m (~4000 feet) paid out cable and we get release height of about 400m
(~1300 feet). With strong headwind we even get 600m, sometimes more. Our
club charges 4,- ? for a launch.

It depends on lots of factors: engine power, pilot skills, wind direction
and strength, cable (steel or dyneema), lenght of cable, glider type... and
certainly more. The above numbers are for a double seater like ASK21, steel
cable and moderate headwind.

There have been launches with dyneema cable of 3000m length and release
heights of 1200m. This is a really cost effective way to do aerobatics.

To answer your question: I would think 3000 feet is the minimun for a
reasonable winch operation. However, I have seen fields with only 2000 feet.
Chris
  #4  
Old June 6th 12, 11:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Markus Graeber
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Posts: 87
Default Where to get Winched?

On Wednesday, June 6, 2012 6:38:19 AM UTC-5, Walt Connelly wrote:
Where in the South East US of A might one go to get a winch launch
endorsement? ALSO, in general how much runway is needed for an adequate
winch launch? What might the minimum runway length be?

Walt




--
Walt Connelly


I think the Aussies set the minimum at 1200 meters available for a winch operation, otherwise you need a special permit since safety becomes much more critical in case of a launch failure. I learned in Germany on an 800 m strip but we had fields available to the side past the end of the grass runway for straight ahead emergency landings past the winch. With the steel cable we used you more or less had one quick try at a thermal otherwise you were back down, we also entered a close traffic at something like 600 - 700 ft to buy us some time, normally you'd enter at 800 or 1000 ft...

Here in Colombia I do not bother about locations with less than 1200 m, just too much trouble and very short flights (likely less than 8 min depending on alt, wind etc.)

Markus
  #5  
Old June 6th 12, 11:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill D
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Posts: 746
Default Where to get Winched?

The good news for winch launch is GA activity is WAAAY down at more
remote airports. If the airport manager still has a job, he's
watching every months activity report with dread. Ask for permission
to winch launch and be sure to mention how many flights you'll be
making. The higher the number, the brighter his face will be.



On Jun 6, 4:15*pm, Markus Graeber wrote:
On Wednesday, June 6, 2012 6:38:19 AM UTC-5, Walt Connelly wrote:
Where in the South East US of A might one go to get a winch launch
endorsement? *ALSO, in general how much runway is needed for an adequate
winch launch? *What might the minimum runway length be?


Walt


--
Walt Connelly


I think the Aussies set the minimum at 1200 meters available for a winch operation, otherwise you need a special permit since safety becomes much more critical in case of a launch failure. I learned in Germany on an 800 m strip but we had fields available to the side past the end of the grass runway for straight ahead emergency landings past the winch. With the steel cable we used you more or less had one quick try at a thermal otherwise you were back down, we also entered a close traffic at something like 600 - 700 ft to buy us some time, normally you'd enter at 800 or 1000 ft...

Here in Colombia I do not bother about locations with less than 1200 m, just too much trouble and very short flights (likely less than 8 min depending on alt, wind etc.)

Markus


  #6  
Old June 7th 12, 01:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
J.D. Barron
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Posts: 1
Default Where to get Winched?

If you are wanting to get ground launch endorsement then an auto will
do the same thing.
Of course you can get more altitude from a good winch, but you can get
enough atlitude for a circuit.
Now where can I get a self launching checkride?
  #7  
Old June 7th 12, 01:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill D
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Posts: 746
Default Where to get Winched?

On Jun 6, 6:21*pm, "J.D. Barron" wrote:
If you are wanting to get ground launch endorsement then an auto will
do the same thing.
Of course you can get more altitude from a good winch, but you can get
enough atlitude for a circuit.
Now where can I get a self launching checkride?


For the Part 61.31(j)) endorsement either auto tow or winch will do.
While they are similar, some aspects are actually very different. For
your safety, I'd recommend a good checkout on each.
  #8  
Old June 7th 12, 01:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
toad
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Posts: 229
Default Where to get Winched?

On Jun 6, 7:38*am, Walt Connelly
wrote:
Where in the South East US of A might one go to get a winch launch
endorsement? *ALSO, in general how much runway is needed for an adequate
winch launch? *What might the minimum runway length be?

Walt

--
Walt Connelly


The only place that I have ever found advertising an endorsement
training was a soaring club in Houston. If there are any other
operations that will train a new pilot to winch launch, I have not yet
found them. They may exist, but they don't advertise.

The difficulty of finding training and the price of land might be why
there are such limited numbers of winch operations around in the US.

Todd
  #9  
Old June 7th 12, 01:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill D
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Posts: 746
Default Where to get Winched?

On Jun 7, 6:05*am, toad wrote:
On Jun 6, 7:38*am, Walt Connelly

wrote:
Where in the South East US of A might one go to get a winch launch
endorsement? *ALSO, in general how much runway is needed for an adequate
winch launch? *What might the minimum runway length be?


Walt


--
Walt Connelly


The only place that I have ever found advertising an endorsement
training was a soaring club in Houston. *If there are any other
operations that will train a new pilot to winch launch, I have not yet
found them. *They may exist, but they don't advertise.

The difficulty of finding training and the price of land might be why
there are such limited numbers of winch operations around in the US.

Todd


There's Cross Country Soaring in Faribault, MN
  #10  
Old June 7th 12, 02:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
GC[_2_]
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Posts: 107
Default Where to get Winched?

On 7/06/2012 02:45, Chris wrote:

We in europe do winch launching as the standard procedure. Our airfield has
1200m (~4000 feet) paid out cable and we get release height of about 400m
(~1300 feet). With strong headwind we even get 600m, sometimes more. Our
club charges 4,- ? for a launch.


Yes. Bill Daniels seems optimistic to me. 1 for 3 is about what I'd
expect with a nil to light wind.

It depends on lots of factors: engine power, pilot skills, wind direction
and strength, cable (steel or dyneema), lenght of cable, glider type... and
certainly more. The above numbers are for a double seater like ASK21, steel
cable and moderate headwind.

There have been launches with dyneema cable of 3000m length and release
heights of 1200m. This is a really cost effective way to do aerobatics.

To answer your question: I would think 3000 feet is the minimun for a
reasonable winch operation. However, I have seen fields with only 2000 feet.


The length you need is wire length - not runway length. The ground run
for a launch is barely 100 yards. Any more is for landing, launch
emergencies, etc. Winches are also commonly sited well beyond the
upwind runway threshold. It's a very flexible launching system.

GC
Chris


 




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