Cameras and barographs

Todd Smith posted:

I was a new guy in soaring about 7 years ago and as
I was working on
my Silver badge, got a lesson in how to smoke a windup
barograph and
all that. I bought a used thermal electric model that
required no
screwing around, all I had to do was put it in the
glider. I then
tried to do my Silver distance with a camera, the rigmarole
was
ridiculous. I ordered a Colibri immediately after that
and badge
flights have been simple (except for the flying) ever
since.
----------

Well, there's your mistake. No need for a camera to
do the Silver Distance flight, even back in the olden
days before GPS. I certainly didn't need one. I also
helped set one state record for distance without using
a camera.

Jim Beckman

I also wanted to land back where I took off :-)

That's hard to do without the camera or logger.

Todd

On Sep 27, 9:11 am, toad wrote:
I also wanted to land back where I took off :-)

That's hard to do without the camera or logger.

Todd

Hard but not impossible. Back in the "olden days," you were allowed to
use observers. On more than one occasion my father radioed the FBO at
a local turnpoint and got him to come out and "observe" him (5,000
feet above!) as he crossed the airport. Then my dad would send the guy
a letter with a pre-filled form to sign and a stamped, self-addressed
envelope, and receive it a week later. OK, it was kludgy but it was
possible.

I agree that cameras and photo declarations and getting the film
processed without cutting the negative were a hassle. On the other
hand, so is trying to upload waypoints when ActiveSync won't release a
COM port or any number of other modern glitches. Just Google this
newsgroup for the plaintive cries for help. Worse yet, go to any user
group page on one of the hardware or software makers' Web sites and
read about the real-world experiences of pilots who are unknowingly
(and unwillingly) recruited as beta testers by engineers who know they
can't possibly afford to test their products for the soaring world the
way they would for a larger market. Cameras are sold by the tens of
thousands if not millions. By comparison, sales of loggers, flight
computers, and related software and systems are infinitesimal. And
anytime you think that the gliding community has somehow magically
developed the skills necessary to acquire, configure, use, and
troubleshoot various electronic gadgets that have to talk to each
other, just show up in the scorer's office at any contest to see the
parade of pilots waiting to have the scorer upload the contest
database for them.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

On Sep 27, 10:06 am, Chip Bearden wrote:
On Sep 27, 9:11 am, toad wrote:

I also wanted to land back where I took off :-)

That's hard to do without the camera or logger.

Todd

Hard but not impossible. Back in the "olden days," you were allowed to
use observers. On more than one occasion my father radioed the FBO at
a local turnpoint and got him to come out and "observe" him (5,000
feet above!) as he crossed the airport. Then my dad would send the guy
a letter with a pre-filled form to sign and a stamped, self-addressed
envelope, and receive it a week later. OK, it was kludgy but it was
possible.

I agree that cameras and photo declarations and getting the film
processed without cutting the negative were a hassle. On the other
hand, so is trying to upload waypoints when ActiveSync won't release a
COM port or any number of other modern glitches. Just Google this
newsgroup for the plaintive cries for help. Worse yet, go to any user
group page on one of the hardware or software makers' Web sites and
read about the real-world experiences of pilots who are unknowingly
(and unwillingly) recruited as beta testers by engineers who know they
can't possibly afford to test their products for the soaring world the
way they would for a larger market. Cameras are sold by the tens of
thousands if not millions. By comparison, sales of loggers, flight
computers, and related software and systems are infinitesimal. And
anytime you think that the gliding community has somehow magically
developed the skills necessary to acquire, configure, use, and
troubleshoot various electronic gadgets that have to talk to each
other, just show up in the scorer's office at any contest to see the
parade of pilots waiting to have the scorer upload the contest
database for them.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

Or the contest pilot that shows up with a logger, but no cables to
upload or download that logger. Because I had the same logger (a
Colibri), I got drafted to help him.

So I understand that computers have there own problems. But for me,
the electronic skills were so much easier to deal with, and most
importantly, require very little from my potential observers and me on
the day of the flight, that I could declare a badge task at about 1
minutes notice before takeoff. All of the computer mucking about was
done on a tuesday night in my house, there was no work to be done at
the airport before takeoff.

Todd

Out of curiosity, has anyone 'recently' attempted a
badge flight using a camera or ground observers ?
Did it get accepted by SSA without added hassle ?

I guess a digital camera is completely out of the question
!

Ian





At 14:42 27 September 2007, Toad wrote:
On Sep 27, 10:06 am, Chip Bearden wrote:
On Sep 27, 9:11 am, toad wrote:

I also wanted to land back where I took off :-)

That's hard to do without the camera or logger.

Todd

Hard but not impossible. Back in the 'olden days,'
you were allowed to
use observers. On more than one occasion my father
radioed the FBO at
a local turnpoint and got him to come out and 'observe'
him (5,000
feet above!) as he crossed the airport. Then my dad
would send the guy
a letter with a pre-filled form to sign and a stamped,
self-addressed
envelope, and receive it a week later. OK, it was
kludgy but it was
possible.

I guess a digital camera is completely out of the question
!

Ian

Think Photoshop!

On Sep 27, 8:00 am, Ian Cant
wrote:
Out of curiosity, has anyone 'recently' attempted a
badge flight using a camera or ground observers ?
Did it get accepted by SSA without added hassle ?

I guess a digital camera is completely out of the question
!

Ian

At 14:42 27 September 2007, Toad wrote:



On Sep 27, 10:06 am, Chip Bearden wrote:
On Sep 27, 9:11 am, toad wrote:

I also wanted to land back where I took off :-)

That's hard to do without the camera or logger.

Todd

Hard but not impossible. Back in the 'olden days,'
you were allowed to
use observers. On more than one occasion my father
radioed the FBO at
a local turnpoint and got him to come out and 'observe'
him (5,000
feet above!) as he crossed the airport. Then my dad
would send the guy
a letter with a pre-filled form to sign and a stamped,
self-addressed
envelope, and receive it a week later. OK, it was
kludgy but it was
possible. - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

According to the Badge Lady, my Gold Distance flight (July 06) was the
ONLY baro and turnpoint camera badge she processed in all of 2006. I
am currently OO preparing a Diamond Goal badge claim for another club
member, and it's a LOT more work than a claim using a Certified Flight
Recorder.
Still, I'd like to smoke up another foil, mount up the camera, and do
one more badge flight that way before I retire the Baro forever....

On Sep 27, 8:46 pm, wrote:
On Sep 27, 8:00 am, Ian Cant
wrote:





Out of curiosity, has anyone 'recently' attempted a
badge flight using a camera or ground observers ?
Did it get accepted by SSA without added hassle ?

I guess a digital camera is completely out of the question
!

Ian

At 14:42 27 September 2007, Toad wrote:

On Sep 27, 10:06 am, Chip Bearden wrote:
On Sep 27, 9:11 am, toad wrote:

I also wanted to land back where I took off :-)

That's hard to do without the camera or logger.

Todd

Hard but not impossible. Back in the 'olden days,'
you were allowed to
use observers. On more than one occasion my father
radioed the FBO at
a local turnpoint and got him to come out and 'observe'
him (5,000
feet above!) as he crossed the airport. Then my dad
would send the guy
a letter with a pre-filled form to sign and a stamped,
self-addressed
envelope, and receive it a week later. OK, it was
kludgy but it was
possible. - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

According to the Badge Lady, my Gold Distance flight (July 06) was the
ONLY baro and turnpoint camera badge she processed in all of 2006. I
am currently OO preparing a Diamond Goal badge claim for another club
member, and it's a LOT more work than a claim using a Certified Flight
Recorder.
Still, I'd like to smoke up another foil, mount up the camera, and do
one more badge flight that way before I retire the Baro forever....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

someday my barograph will not fail, and she will have a Silver Badge
to process on paper.

unless of course someone decides to bankroll a flight recorder for me.

At 15:54 28 September 2007, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:

You will then, no doubt be entertained by the proposal
to remove Camera
and Ground Observers for the Sporting Code from 1st
October 2008.

Tim Newport-Peace



That is interesting news. Perhaps it will/would only
affect a small number of pilots, but would it not be
nice to be informed about the proposal and have an
opportunity to comment ? Where are our representatives
on this ?

Cameras and barographs may be awkward and unfashionable,
but so are Ka-8s and 1-26s. Should we expect to see
some future Sporting Code that allows only glass/carbon
better than 40:1 for Silver badge attempts ? It might
even be a 'safety enhancement'. And it would certainly
reduce the number of impecunious upstarts who presume
to try to take part in the sport.

Open fire !

Ian

On 29 Sep, 15:33, Ian Cant
wrote:
At 15:54 28 September 2007, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:

You will then, no doubt be entertained by the proposal
to remove Camera
and Ground Observers for the Sporting Code from 1st
October 2008.

That is interesting news. Perhaps it will/would only
affect a small number of pilots, but would it not be
nice to be informed about the proposal and have an
opportunity to comment ? Where are our representatives
on this ?

And what do our representatives fly?

Cameras and barographs may be awkward and unfashionable,
but so are Ka-8s and 1-26s. Should we expect to see
some future Sporting Code that allows only glass/carbon
better than 40:1 for Silver badge attempts ?

I'd rather it was changed to Silver Distance being 2km * best L/D for
the glider (and similarly for Gold and Diamond: 12km and 20km * best L/
D. Silver distance in modern glass is absurdly easy.

I am very disappointed that we might see and end to cameras and
mechanical barographs. Sometimes it seems that those of us at the
budget end of the sport really aren't welcome any more.

Ian