Guess Who's Planning to Shine Lasers on Pilots

"Jay Honeck" wrote

Tenure is a joke.

I respect you right to your opininon, so I'll let that one go.

These fine folks -- all well-meaning and earnest -- are lavished with
every
known benefit, from health care, to paid vacations (3 months long, plus
winter breaks, plus spring breaks!)

Whoa, there. Where did you get the idea that the summers they don't work
are paid vacations? That is inncorect.

They do get their pay spread out for 12 months. They can choose to get it
immediately, monthly as do most other people. If they don't get paid in the
summer, it does not sound like vacation to me.

Another point in support of my position. If you have a job that has
vacation, you can take it any time of the year, right? If you work for a
real small employer, you might have to coordinate with the other people, so
every one is not out at the same time, but otherwise, put in you papers, and
take your vaction.

Teachers can get time off during the normal school days, if they take one
of their few personal days, or a sick day, or unpaid leave. That does not
sound like vacation, to me.

to "sabbaticals" (more vacation) to
tenure (guaranteed-to-the-grave employment) to university-owned vehicles,
to
week-long "wellness seminars" (more vacation), to six-figure salaries.
The
list goes on and one, and is quite sickening.

Sounds like Iowa has figured out a way to get qualified people to live out
there. I'll have to admit that thepackage you describe sounds quite
appealing.

Then, just to really break your heart, tuition costs have skyrocketed each
year, far higher than the annual inflation rate, to the point where only
rich kids can attend what was once known as a "public" university.

Have you attempted to compare the percentage increase in tuition, and
percentage increase in professor's salary? (and fringes) I bet you will
find the tuition increase is much higher, but the professor pay is not that
much higher. If your state legislature is like ours, they have cut higher
education support back, severely. The universities have no choice but to
make up the shortfalls to the students. It *is* unfare. Fortunately, there
are still good student loans to be had. I feel the financial pain. I have
one in medical school, and one in college, and this on two teacher (high
school) salaries. NC is not anywhere near the top of the nation's teacher
pay list.

Meanwhile, the football coach is the highest paid public employee in the
state, at well over a million (plus all of his Nike endorsements, which
brings his ANNUAL pay to well over $2 million) -- and the graduation rate
among athletes is astoundingly low.

That does suck, I will agree. College athletics is professional sports.
Someone needs to admit it.

Jay, for an intelligent, educated person, I am disappointed in your comment
about the vacation. I will not argue with your opinion about all of the
other issues. It is your right to hold those opinions, but you are wrong
about the three months vacation.
--
Jim in NC

Jay, for an intelligent, educated person, I am disappointed in your
comment
about the vacation.

Well, Jim, perhaps *you* work all summer -- but I know an awful lot of
teachers and professors in Iowa City who choose to travel, or simply read
books for three months.

To which, by the way, I say "more power to them." The ONLY reason I was
attracted to teaching when I graduated from college (back in 1981, when
English teachers were more common than grains of sand on a beach) was to get
those three months off.

And those 2 weeks at Christmas.

And that week at Easter.

And every Saturday and Sunday.

Don't get me wrong, teachers more than earn their pay the rest of the
year -- but don't try to tell me that they are under-compensated, or that
they don't get enough time off. Cuz I'm here to tell you, a teacher gets
more paid vacation in any four year period than I've had off in my entire
working life.

That's 24 YEARS, by the way.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote

I know an awful lot of
teachers and professors in Iowa City who choose to travel, or simply read
books for three months.

Fine, if they can afford it, but it is absolutely not paid vacation.
Teachers work 9 months a year. Period. That is what their contract says.
They get they pay deferred over 12 months, if they choose. You could not
have the option of getting all your pay in less months than what you are
employed for, if you really were on contract, and that was 3 months of paid
vacation.

To which, by the way, I say "more power to them." The ONLY reason I was
attracted to teaching when I graduated from college (back in 1981, when
English teachers were more common than grains of sand on a beach) was to
get
those three months off.

Right. The joke was always there are three reasons to be a teacher. June,
July and August. Still not paid vacation. Think of it as manditory time
off. You don't have the option of working, and banking, or getting credit
for having worked on those "vacation" days, since they are NOT vacation
days.

And those 2 weeks at Christmas.

Not paid vacation. My contract is for 180 days with students, and 20
various other continuing education days, of which about 4 days *are*
vacation, (which are *scheduled* for you, such as Federal Holidays) No free
will, as most people have with their vacation days.

And that week at Easter.

Not paid vacation.

And every Saturday and Sunday.

As if most so called professionals work Saturday and Sunday.

Don't get me wrong, teachers more than earn their pay the rest of the
year -

I'm glad you appreciate teachers.

- but don't try to tell me that they are under-compensated,

Well, I know college teachers get paid more, but my wife and I teach high
school. My wife also works for 4 weeks in the summer to make more money, to
try and make ends meet. I work in the summer and weekends sometimes, doing
construction to make enough to help pay the bills. I drive a 1987 Chevy
van, with over 250,000 miles on it. My wife bought her *first* new car
*ever* this year, with the understanding that she will have to work her 31st
year, instead of retireing at 30, in order to pay for it. We live in a
2,400 sf house built in about 1956. We go out very little, and do not have
luxurys like HDTVs, or plasma TVs. I don't think we are particularly well
compensated, for 5 year and 4 year college grads. You can look up what we
get paid, I'm sure, if you (or anyone else) is really curious.

or that they don't get enough time off.

Time off, yea right. I take a week to go to OSH, and a week to go to the
beach, but that's it.

Cuz I'm here to tell you, a teacher gets
more paid vacation in any four year period than I've had off in my entire
working life.

*Not* paid vacation. Absolutely not. Time off, yes, but not paid. How
many professionals do you know that work for a reputable employer for 30
years, and only get 4 days of paid vacation?

That's 24 YEARS, by the way.

I hope I have explained the difference between paid vacation and time off.
This is a sore spot with me. If you can't see my point, we'll have to agree
to disagree.
--
Jim in NC

"Jay Honeck" writes:

Cuz I'm here to tell you, a teacher gets
more paid vacation in any four year period than I've had off in my entire
working life.

That says a lot more about your choices than anything about teachers.

Ya know, your attitude reminds me of Burt Rutan's. The only way that
guy gets satisfaction is bashing NASA. He seems incapable--from what
I've seen on the TV--of deriving enjoyment purely from his own
efforts. No, he always compares his work against the government's
efforts, finds fault with them, and *then* takes satisfaction in
what's he's accomplished. Pretty pathetic.

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...
"Jay Honeck" writes:

Cuz I'm here to tell you, a teacher gets
more paid vacation in any four year period than I've had off in my
entire
working life.

That says a lot more about your choices than anything about teachers.

Ya know, your attitude reminds me of Burt Rutan's. The only way that
guy gets satisfaction is bashing NASA. He seems incapable--from what
I've seen on the TV--of deriving enjoyment purely from his own
efforts. No, he always compares his work against the government's
efforts, finds fault with them, and *then* takes satisfaction in
what's he's accomplished. Pretty pathetic.

Utterly outstanding in my book. The guy can do more with $10 than the
government can do with $1,000,000. His accomplishments certainly give him
the right to strut a little and what is wrong with one taking satisfaction
for a job well done. When has NASA ever developed anything that can compete
with a longEZ or SpaceshipOne at any cost? Heck, I'd nominate him to run
NASA in a heart beat, throw in the FAA also. This country needs several
hundred thousand people that have Burt's attitude and can produce like he
produces. The sideburns are another story.

I hope I have explained the difference between paid vacation and time off.
This is a sore spot with me. If you can't see my point, we'll have to
agree
to disagree.

I understand your point, but it's all semantics. If you can make enough to
live on in just 9 months, well, by golly, you're doing better than most of
us. Call the rest of the year "unpaid" is you'd like.

To put it another way: If I took three months off -- "paid" or not -- from
any job I've ever had, I'd have been terminated. Yet, for some reason,
teachers are a protected class that still get the "harvest season" off --
even though less than 2% of Americans still farm the land.

Now do you see *my* point?

Again, this is hardly the topic of discussion, and I think most teachers
earn their compensation -- especially ones like you who have to teach kids
like mine all day long. Heck, if it weren't for the three months off,
society would have to pay teachers twice as much to attract the same caliber
people. Looking at it that way, 3 months off is a real bargain.

"Professors", on the other hand, rank right up there with Burt Rutan's
sideburns...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:21:32 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote in 0imTd.22145$zH6.134@attbi_s53::

I'd be happy to have my kids attend Churchill's classes and engage in
those debates. In fact, we have been having a few dinner table discussions
based on his comments. Sounds like a successful educator to me.

Well, now, that's a good point. A lively debate is always good for the
kids, and good for the mind ...

I agree.

Bill Maher had two guests on last Friday's Real Time show* on HBO.
First Maher had a candid interview with Ward Churchill, and asked
about his "little Eichmann" statement. Then the brother of one of the
WTC victims confronted Churchill. It was a most enlightening
discussion.

At the end of that discussion, Maher mentioned that he thought it
would be a good idea to place a memorial marker on the site where the
WTC towers stood before the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.
Maher thought the words "WHY DO THEY HATE US?" would be an appropriate
inscription for that memorial marker. Churchill agreed, and the WTC
victim's brother disagreed.

The question of "WHY DO THEY HATE US?" seems to be the real crux of
the Churchill issue, but it is somehow overshadowed by the emotional
empathy and hysteria generated in the minds of many US citizens who
witnessed the live televised cataclysmic events. So now, over 3 years
later, perhaps it's about time to attempt to explain what could have
been the root cause that was so repugnant to the terrorists as to
cause them expend considerable time, money and a score of lives in
accomplishing their abominable deeds on that fateful day.

Why do they hate us? Is the source of the terrorists' enmity based in
irrational religious dogma, or is it rationally based on past US
deeds? To the extent that Ward Churchill causes us US citizens to
wipe away our tears and ponder those questions, he has succeeded in
sparking useful discussion. Some of us, overcome with grief and
anger, choose to remain fixated on the horror of 9/11 to the exclusion
of examining its cause. Others of us seek to understand the cause,
and take steps to see that it isn't repeated. Whether oppressive
Homeland Security laws or modification of US foreign policy is going
to be the most successful course for preventing future terrorist acts
against the US remains to be seen.

WHY DO THEY HATE US?


*
http://boards.hbo.com/thread.jspa?th...art=0&start=-1

WHY DO THEY HATE US?

I know I shouldn't take the bait, but:

Yours is a meaningless question at this stage. The time to ask (or answer)
that question -- even if one found any validity in it -- has long since
past.

Here are the cold, hard facts: They hate us. They want to kill us. They
have killed us.

Once they crossed that line, the validity of your question evaporated.
There is no longer any reason to ponder -- or care -- *why* they hate us,
for all of our energies must now be focused entirely upon rooting out and
destroying them, wherever they live.

I, for one, prefer not to wait until they come to our house again.

Bottom line: Wringing your hands wondering *why* a murderer has just killed
your family is probably not productive. Making sure it doesn't happen to
the rest of your family is...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Recently, Jay Honeck posted:

WHY DO THEY HATE US?

I know I shouldn't take the bait, but:

Nor should I, but:

Yours is a meaningless question at this stage. The time to ask (or
answer) that question -- even if one found any validity in it -- has
long since past.

Here are the cold, hard facts: They hate us. They want to kill us.
They have killed us.

I see the cold, hard facts a little differently. They hate us (because of
how we relate to "them"). "They" want(ed) to kill us to get our attention.
"They" did so. "We" still don't get it.

Once they crossed that line, the validity of your question evaporated.
There is no longer any reason to ponder -- or care -- *why* they hate
us, for all of our energies must now be focused entirely upon rooting
out and destroying them, wherever they live.

There are so many problems with this idea that it's hard to know where to
begin. For example: are we rooting out and destroying "them" in greater
numbers than we are creating "them"? The answer given by many of those
doing the "rooting and destroying" is "no".

I, for one, prefer not to wait until they come to our house again.

Bottom line: Wringing your hands wondering *why* a murderer has just
killed your family is probably not productive. Making sure it
doesn't happen to the rest of your family is...

There are other cold hard facts to consider here. We aren't dealing with
"a murderer". We're dealing with entire cultures who just don't happen to
appreciate our way of going about things. So, to make sure they don't try
to kill the rest of our family, perhaps the best approach is to go about
things differently? If so, the best question to ask is "why do they hate
us?", as only an understanding and addressing of that question can lead to
peace.

Best regards,

Neil

There are other cold hard facts to consider here. We aren't dealing with
"a murderer". We're dealing with entire cultures who just don't happen to
appreciate our way of going about things. So, to make sure they don't try
to kill the rest of our family, perhaps the best approach is to go about
things differently? If so, the best question to ask is "why do they hate
us?", as only an understanding and addressing of that question can lead to
peace.

Well, Neil, I hear you -- but I don't believe that our enemies really care
about how we "change our ways." It's clearly gone beyond all that. (As if
"we" had the ability to "change our ways" anyway -- whatever all that
means.)

At best, your suggestion only works if you believe that our culture isn't
superior to that which predominated during the 6th Century, A.D. -- which is
about where the terrorists are today. If you think that "changing our ways"
to suit their barbaric view of the world will ensure peace, I suggest you
study Neville Chamberlain and what his government did with the Nazis, some
65 years ago.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"