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#1
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Hartzell prop hub AD 2006-18-15...results and our options
I found out a few months back that we're affected by the recent Hartzell
prop hub AD...requires an eddy current inspection on the front half of the hub within 50 hours TIS then every 100 thereafter *or* annual, whichever comes first. So I made it to the prop shop this week and the good news is that we have no cracks in the hub. The not so good news is that going the route of replacing the hub doesn't make sense for us as we might/might not have another overhaul remaining on our current blades. The prop is original and has three overhauls on it. The shop took some measurements and it was close enough to minimums that they wouldn't know for sure unless the paint was stripped and measurements were taken with the prop off the plane. If we do have one overhaul remaining, we'd be looking at just north of 4 AMUs for a new hub and an overhaul. That's a ton of cash to sink into a prop with a pair of last run blades. Another option would be a reseal vs. overhaul (along with a new hub)...but we'd still be paying approx. 1/2 the price of a new 2-blade prop. Next option, repetitive 100 hour inspections. The inspection costs $300 and it's $50-$60 in gas for a round trip to the shop. By the time you eat two hours off the engine reserves (which is how we handle maintenance flights), this gets expensive over the long haul. We're 1000 hours from the recommended TBO from Hartzell (2000 hours or 72 months...and we're at 96 months SPOH). Another 1000 hours on the prop would mean $3500-$3600 down the drain for repetitive inspections and we'd still need a new prop someday. Nah...at some point before the next overhaul, we need to consider a new prop. Next (and most expensive up front) option, a new prop. The quote from the shop for a McCauley 2-blade prop/hub/parts to use our existing spinner was 7.002 AMUs. This is with trade-in on our current hub and blades but doesn't include installation. I didn't get quotes on Hartzell props nor for a 3-blade McCauley. While I like the looks of a 3-blade, IMHO, the added up front cost and increased overhaul costs don't justify the performance benefits. Plus, I've read from a few Arrow/Lance owners that while they get improved climb performance and less RPM limitations, they lose a few kts. in cruise. Added weight is about 10 lbs for the McCauley so that's not a big deal. So, now it's time for the partnership to ponder our options. I'm betting that we decide on repetitive inspections and to up the per-hour costs a tad in order to stash some extra cash away for a new prop. Our existing prop is in good shape so we should have a few years to save up. As JayH said, it's always something :-) If someone sees Santa, would you pass along that I'd like a new McCauley B2D34C213 prop (Piper part # 550-974)? Merry Christmas all. Here's to hoping Santa brings you some cool flying toys, maybe some good flying weather, or, perhaps sends the elves to fix the plane in the middle of the night. -- Jack Allison PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane "To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become a private pilot you must strive to master four of them" - Rod Machado (Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail) |
#2
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Hartzell prop hub AD 2006-18-15...results and our options
Jack, I had a similar situation a while back with my Arrow - blades
turned up out of spec when removed for service. I could not find serviceable blades, so the only option appeared to be new 2-blade or new 3-blade from Hartzell (Macauley apparently didn't have one for my 1969 model). The 3-blade was about $1 AMU cheaper so that's what I did. True airspeed is difficult to measure with precision. I definitely am not going any faster, but can still produce 175 mph alone aboard at 75% best power, and as you say the climb performance is enhanced. The airplane is a little quieter. You have to experiment with mounting a 3 blade prop on a 4 cylinder engine. A 180 degree rotation helped reduce vibration big time on mine. You also get a little better ground clearance. All things being equal, I'd still go with 2 blades, but saving an AMU tipped the balance and I've not been sorry. |
#3
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Hartzell prop hub AD 2006-18-15...results and our options
You can measure true airspeed using a GPS. Hold power and altitude and
turn into the wind. Turn until you have the lowest groundspeed. Now fly for one minute. Note the groundspeed. Turn 180 degrees and fly for one minute. Average the two groundspeeds and you will have your TAS within a knot or so. |
#4
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Hartzell prop hub AD 2006-18-15...results and our options
Paul kgyy wrote:
Jack, I had a similar situation a while back with my Arrow - blades turned up out of spec when removed for service. At which point, you're committed to a) finding serviceable blades or b) buying a new prop. The 3-blade was about $1 AMU cheaper so that's what I did. Interesting...an extra blade and it cost less...go figure. All things being equal, I'd still go with 2 blades, but saving an AMU tipped the balance and I've not been sorry. Yeah, can't blame you for saving an AMU. -- Jack Allison PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane "To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become a private pilot you must strive to master four of them" - Rod Machado (Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail) |
#5
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Hartzell prop hub AD 2006-18-15...results and our options
Jack Allison wrote:
Paul kgyy wrote: Jack, I had a similar situation a while back with my Arrow - blades turned up out of spec when removed for service. At which point, you're committed to a) finding serviceable blades or b) buying a new prop. Especially if you send them to Hartzell. Hartzell finds a larger percentage of blades unservicable (and will DEFACE them in the process to make sure they are not returned to service) than most shops. |
#6
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Hartzell prop hub AD 2006-18-15...results and our options
Ron Natalie wrote:
Jack Allison wrote: Paul kgyy wrote: Jack, I had a similar situation a while back with my Arrow - blades turned up out of spec when removed for service. At which point, you're committed to a) finding serviceable blades or b) buying a new prop. Especially if you send them to Hartzell. Hartzell finds a larger percentage of blades unservicable (and will DEFACE them in the process to make sure they are not returned to service) than most shops. Interesting Ron. In researching this AD, talking to the prop shop and folks via various owner groups, it seems as though Hartzell sure is ****ing a bunch of people off. Our prop shop has a few customers for which this AD was the last straw...they said the heck with it, order me a McCauley prop. If I had a spare 7 AMUs in the airplane fund, I'd likely do the same. Heck, if my only data point was the interaction with folks at both Hartzell and McCauley at the AOPA expo, I'd go with McCauley. The gal at the McCauley booth spent time answering my questions and looking up info. that wasn't readily available in the single sheet specs they have out. The dude in the Hartzell booth pretty much handed me a business card saying call their customer service number. Bah...Hartzell,bad...McCauley, good. :-) -- Jack Allison PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane "To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become a private pilot you must strive to master four of them" - Rod Machado (Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail) |
#7
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Hartzell prop hub AD 2006-18-15...results and our options
There's a new prop in town, MT propeller. See if they have one for you.
http://www.mt-propeller.com/ (I have no association with them, just know they make props) |
#8
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Hartzell prop hub AD 2006-18-15...results and our options
When had mine replaced, there was no MaCauley available - only Hartzell for my IO360-C1C. |
#9
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Hartzell prop hub AD 2006-18-15...results and our options
Doug wrote:
There's a new prop in town, MT propeller. See if they have one for you. http://www.mt-propeller.com/ (I have no association with them, just know they make props) Actually took a look at them earlier. I saw one for a Turbo Arrow but recall the prop shop mentioning MT. Something to consider for our long term solution... -- Jack Allison PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane "To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become a private pilot you must strive to master four of them" - Rod Machado (Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail) |
#10
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Hartzell prop hub AD 2006-18-15...results and our options
Hey Jack... Stay away from gettting a 3-blade prop. They look nice but
you'll probably lose speed on the cruise side and you could end up with a vibration that you can't get rid of. That could turn out to more repairs as the vibration causes other issues to be repaired later. They aren't really meant for 4 bangers. Good news for you is that you get to split everything by 3!! :-) Merry Christmas Jon Kraus Jack Allison wrote: I found out a few months back that we're affected by the recent Hartzell prop hub AD...requires an eddy current inspection on the front half of the hub within 50 hours TIS then every 100 thereafter *or* annual, whichever comes first. So I made it to the prop shop this week and the good news is that we have no cracks in the hub. The not so good news is that going the route of replacing the hub doesn't make sense for us as we might/might not have another overhaul remaining on our current blades. The prop is original and has three overhauls on it. The shop took some measurements and it was close enough to minimums that they wouldn't know for sure unless the paint was stripped and measurements were taken with the prop off the plane. If we do have one overhaul remaining, we'd be looking at just north of 4 AMUs for a new hub and an overhaul. That's a ton of cash to sink into a prop with a pair of last run blades. Another option would be a reseal vs. overhaul (along with a new hub)...but we'd still be paying approx. 1/2 the price of a new 2-blade prop. Next option, repetitive 100 hour inspections. The inspection costs $300 and it's $50-$60 in gas for a round trip to the shop. By the time you eat two hours off the engine reserves (which is how we handle maintenance flights), this gets expensive over the long haul. We're 1000 hours from the recommended TBO from Hartzell (2000 hours or 72 months...and we're at 96 months SPOH). Another 1000 hours on the prop would mean $3500-$3600 down the drain for repetitive inspections and we'd still need a new prop someday. Nah...at some point before the next overhaul, we need to consider a new prop. Next (and most expensive up front) option, a new prop. The quote from the shop for a McCauley 2-blade prop/hub/parts to use our existing spinner was 7.002 AMUs. This is with trade-in on our current hub and blades but doesn't include installation. I didn't get quotes on Hartzell props nor for a 3-blade McCauley. While I like the looks of a 3-blade, IMHO, the added up front cost and increased overhaul costs don't justify the performance benefits. Plus, I've read from a few Arrow/Lance owners that while they get improved climb performance and less RPM limitations, they lose a few kts. in cruise. Added weight is about 10 lbs for the McCauley so that's not a big deal. So, now it's time for the partnership to ponder our options. I'm betting that we decide on repetitive inspections and to up the per-hour costs a tad in order to stash some extra cash away for a new prop. Our existing prop is in good shape so we should have a few years to save up. As JayH said, it's always something :-) If someone sees Santa, would you pass along that I'd like a new McCauley B2D34C213 prop (Piper part # 550-974)? Merry Christmas all. Here's to hoping Santa brings you some cool flying toys, maybe some good flying weather, or, perhaps sends the elves to fix the plane in the middle of the night. |
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