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#1
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Aviation photography website (Reno Air Races, Duxford Flying Legends and more ...)
"dth" wrote in message ... Delta Sierra! You don't post binaries on this newsgroup. |
#2
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Yowser-for you guys that know, how come no jets in unlimited air racing, like a
converted/clip wing T-2 or something...Seems like it would do well...even with tip tanks they thing could do 350 kts w/o too much trouble... P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#3
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Thomas- Cause "unlimited" doesn't really mean unlimited. The class rules are
"any piston-engined prop plane capable of 6-G or better." But 350 kts isn't going to cut it anyway -- the unlimiteds are pushing 500 kts on the straights. BRBR Got it and thanks..but a T-2, after the tip tanks are removed, with a little engine work, could probably do 450kts+... P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#4
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Got it and thanks..but a T-2, after the tip tanks are removed, with a
little engine work, could probably do 450kts+... IIRC, there was an unlimited project that was going to use T-2 wings. Compared to WW2 vintage A/C, the T-2 wings are pretty slick. The current T-2C, with engines producing about 2/3's of their advertised thrust, will exceed 400 knots level. Get some low-time J-85's and 450 with tips is a pretty reasonable expectation. And that's knots, not mph. Translate that to Reno altitudes and I think the Trusty Tubbyjet would outperform the unlimiteds. Now the A-4 SuperFox is a whole new ballgame. Finest non-a/b jet of all time IMO. R / John |
#5
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"John Carrier" wrote...
IIRC, there was an unlimited project that was going to use T-2 wings. Compared to WW2 vintage A/C, the T-2 wings are pretty slick. The current T-2C, with engines producing about 2/3's of their advertised thrust, will exceed 400 knots level. Get some low-time J-85's and 450 with tips is a pretty reasonable expectation. And that's knots, not mph. Translate that to Reno altitudes and I think the Trusty Tubbyjet would outperform the unlimiteds. Now the A-4 SuperFox is a whole new ballgame. Finest non-a/b jet of all time IMO. Hmmm... Are you talking 450 KIAS or 450 KTAS? I doubt the T-2 will do 450 KIAS level in any configuration. Getting another 50 KIAS would likely require more thrust than any pair of J-85s could produce. The A-4 is, as you say, a whole new ballgame. IIRC, the A-4C, which was a very clean machine, supposedly could do 540 KIAS. The SuperFox would likely go faster if the dorsal hump was absent. I'm not sure how much drag the hump adds. The A-4M, with the larger hump and bubble canopy, would likely be slower even with the -408 engine. |
#6
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Hmmm... Are you talking 450 KIAS or 450 KTAS?
I doubt the T-2 will do 450 KIAS level in any configuration. Getting another 50 KIAS would likely require more thrust than any pair of J-85s could produce. I was thinking unlimited racing environment where KIAS and KTAS are essentially the same. Pechs may be right, the tips might have to go. The current rode-hard-put-away-wet aircraft will hit 400 at sea level (well okay, break altitude). I can assure you the aircraft that's flying now and that was flying when I instructed (late 80's) is NOT the jet that rolled off the production line performance wise. The A-4 is, as you say, a whole new ballgame. IIRC, the A-4C, which was a very clean machine, supposedly could do 540 KIAS. The SuperFox would likely go faster if the dorsal hump was absent. I'm not sure how much drag the hump adds. The A-4M, with the larger hump and bubble canopy, would likely be slower even with the -408 engine. The A-4 set a low altitude speed record (100km closed course IIRC) of 695 mph at Edwards back in 1954. I think that works out to right around 600 indicated. Yes the Super F's hump was a problem. Adversary and Blues removed it for the performance increase. I've had A-4's in the high 500's above 5K' (while watching the fighters escape with almost 200 knots opening), mach tuck and all the trimmings. Max IAS is usually obtained really low and frequently runs into real or artificial limits (F-4 with centerline had a 600 limit, used to be a limit on F-14 tanks). I never saw an attack aircraft that wasn't pretty well dragged up even though the guys of my era used to LIVE in the weeds. Clean F-104 could really scoot (812 or so indicated in the high desert for the record runs ... at 60-70 feet!) and I've heard the 105 and 111 could really haul the mail as well. Despite lots of stories, most folks don't truly find out what Vmax(indicated) for their airframe really is (and that might be just as well, check out the first Sageburner attempt films). R / John |
#7
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John- Now the A-4 SuperFox is a whole new ballgame. Finest non-a/b jet of
all time IMO. BRBR Agree.... P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#8
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jrweiss- Hmmm... Are you talking 450 KIAS or 450 KTAS?
I doubt the T-2 will do 450 KIAS level in any configuration. Getting another 50 KIAS would likely require more thrust than any pair of J-85s could produce. BRBR I donno...the max was 385KIAS(??, it was 10 years ago)...and that was pretty easy...I think an extra 65 knots was in there somewhere... IIRC, the A-4C, which was a very clean machine, supposedly could do 540 KIAS. The SuperFox would likely go faster if the dorsal hump was absent. BRBR The hump made the jet a little more stable at really high speeds(less 'dog walk')...I had 3 A-4Ms with a lot of the stuff removed, but still had the hump...great self starting jet...Sat up higher in the cockpit tho, for some stuff under the seat, not as comfy as the A-4E/F/F+ The A-4M, with the larger hump and bubble canopy, would likely be slower even with the -408 engine. BRBR Faster than the straight F(-8 engine), felt more sluggish than all of them, slower than the F+... P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#9
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John- Despite lots of stories, most folks don't truly find
out what Vmax(indicated) for their airframe really is (and that might be just as well, check out the first Sageburner attempt films). BRBR Saw the airspeed indicator climb rapidly thru 800 kts on a F-16N(canopy limit is 800) at Yuma range, popped up, broke a 'few' windows in Yuma..didn't catch the F-14 I was chasing... P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
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