Airlines Cut Minimum Pilot Experience to 500 hours and Below

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message

"Hi. I'm not type-rated and don't have a driver's license or live in the
US, but I've logged -thousands- of hours on MSFS-X! I'll work for $12.50
per flight hour! Why would you pay pilots more than they're willing to
work
for?"

So your concern is that the airlines are going to put pilots in the
seat without a type rating? So if the airlines guarantee that pilots
have a type rating you're ok?

No. I was being sarcastic.

The same could be said for business executives. Although I suppose Carly
Fiorina was WORTH all that money to HP.

The investors decided to give her a shot. She didn't work out and they
lost their money.

A whole bunch of engineers I know who designed the products and
manufacturing infrastructures that made those products industry leaders lost
their jobs in the subsequent fallout, too. She got more in her severance
pay than most of their annual salaries combined, and then the bitch had the
gall to get up and tell the graduating class of OSU that she was unemployed
just like them.

....'Course, not only did she get tens of millions of dollars in severance,
they gave her $50,000 for--get this--"financial and legal counseling."
Apparently she can't afford a laywer, so, hell, just axe an engineer or
technical writer and give her the money. She's out of a job and all.

Nope. The system is broken. It's funny how only the people making all the
money think the system works. Meanwhile, a business executive's bonus
shouldn't be worth a toddlers' lead poisoning but America has clearly sold
out to the China. It can't help itself. We can't control ourselves. In
other newsgroups we've got the right wing calling everybody communists and
then defending Wal Mart China.

That's the way the world works.

For odd values of "works." It sure as hell works for China, India, Taiwan
and everywhere else America has outsourced itself, hasn't it?
Are they offshoring MBAs yet?

-c

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote in message
news:7bcfaa8a07f95@uwe...
Gatt wrote:

I'm not so sure that upping the pay would make a great difference.

Where are all the qualified pilots going these days? Overseas? Why
was
that, again?

I thought we were talking about the marginally qualified pilots that the
commuters are currently settling for.

As soon as they're qualified, they're leaving. That's why the majors are
hiring, too.

-c

Since labor can strike as long as they
want and the employers can't replace them ([...])
guess who has the unfair advantage.

I guess the key word is "unfair". Sheer size (of a corporation or
industry vs. an employee) is also an advantage. Is it unfair? Does it
(unfettered) lead to unfair practices?

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I think you are a little off in your pay scale. For different airline pay
scale look here http://willflyforfood.cc/airlinepilotpay/


"Panic" wrote in message
...
Yeah, and what do many non-pilots don't fully understand is that pilots
get paid for the hours they fly...not for the hours they work. In an 8
hour workday they may only get 4 hours of flight pay. Flight planning,
preflight, postflight, etc are not paid hours of work. $22.00/hour pay
rate (flight time) can translate to $11.00 an hour for actual working
time.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

More Evidence of the Pilot Shortage

PILOT SHORTAGE HITS REGIONALS
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#196655)
American Eagle, the regional subsidiary of American Airlines, has
trimmed flights from its winter schedule in part because it
doesn't have enough pilots. "It's one of several reasons, but that
does play into it," Eagle spokeswoman Andrea Huguely told the Fort
Worth Star-Telegram
(http://www.star-telegram.com/busines...y/322928.html). "The
pilots are crucial, and without them, the planes don't fly." Eagle
is one of several airlines that has cut minimum experience
requirements by two-thirds to 500 hours to attract more recruits.
According to the newspaper, Trans States Airlines, which operates
a regional service for American under the name American
Connection, briefly lowered its experience requirement to 250
hours during the summer. Although no one seems to deny the value
of experience, industry spokesmen contacted by the newspaper
seemed to agree that safety is not being seriously compromised.


http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/...20News/852841/
The carriers have reduced required flight hours for job applicants
by as much as two-thirds, and in a few cases have hired pilots
with the minimum experience required by the Federal Aviation
Administration for a pilot's license. ...

"The rush to push pilots through training and into the cockpits
raises obvious safety concerns," said John Prater, a veteran
Continental Airlines pilot and president of the Air Line Pilots
Association. ...

"New pilots today are going straight into the [co-pilot's] seat,
and moving into the [captain's] seat in a hurry," he said. "And
they're doing it in airplanes that are great machines but can be
unforgiving." ...

For example, a starting pilot at Trans States, a regional airline
that flies for American under the name American Connection, earns
$22 a flight hour, with 74 hours guaranteed a month, according to
AirlinePilotCentral.com, which tracks pilot salaries. That
translates to an annual starting salary of $19,500. A pilot flying
1,000 hours a year -- the most allowed under federal rules --
would earn about $22,000. ...

Airlines are aggressively recruiting on college campuses and
offering signing bonuses to new hires who complete their training.

On Nov 26, 3:58 pm, "Gatt" wrote:

...'Course, not only did she get tens of millions of dollars in severance,
they gave her $50,000 for--get this--"financial and legal counseling."
Apparently she can't afford a laywer, so, hell, just axe an engineer or
technical writer and give her the money. She's out of a job and all.

But HP didn't ask you to put one dime into her severancebucket. The
company took the risk and the company lost their money. I wouldn't
want to live in a world where I have to get permission from the gov't
to decide how I want to risk my own money.

Nope. The system is broken. It's funny how only the people making all the
money think the system works. Meanwhile, a business executive's bonus
shouldn't be worth a toddlers' lead poisoning but America has clearly sold
out to the China.

You can always offer to hire the CEO for your company without a bonus
package. There is no law requiring a bonus. The owners of the company
choose the compensation package of their executives and its the owners
who have to pay it. If they were spending gov't money I could see why
you would get upset but they are risking their own money. If HP had
made billions as a result of their new CEO I'm sure you wouldn't have
a problem sharing in that. Risk is inherit to business you can't run a
business without taking risks. You can't punish investors for risking
their own money without killing business and jobs.

-Robert

On Nov 26, 4:11 pm, Jose wrote:
Since labor can strike as long as they
want and the employers can't replace them ([...])
guess who has the unfair advantage.

I guess the key word is "unfair". Sheer size (of a corporation or
industry vs. an employee) is also an advantage. Is it unfair? Does it
(unfettered) lead to unfair practices?

Only if they are the only employer around. Otherwise if you are being
paid less than what the market dictates you just go elsewhere.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...
On Nov 26, 3:58 pm, "Gatt" wrote:

...'Course, not only did she get tens of millions of dollars in
severance, they gave her $50,000 for--get this--"financial and legal
counseling." Apparently she can't afford a laywer, so, hell, just axe
an engineer or
technical writer and give her the money. She's out of a job and all.

But HP didn't ask you to put one dime into her severancebucket.


Did I not mention that a whole hell of a lot of engineers, etc, lost their
jobs? Accountants, technicians, service employees...HP Corvallis just
about imploded and parts of their new campus were a ghost town last time I
was there.

The company took the risk and the company lost their money. I wouldn't
want to live in a world where I have to get permission from the gov't

Who mentioned the government?


You can always offer to hire the CEO for your company without a bonus
package. There is no law requiring a bonus. The owners of the company
choose the compensation package of their executives and its the owners
who have to pay it.

Did I not mention that the engineers and the people who actually designed,
manufactured and marketed the HP technology are the ones that lost their
jobs?

Honestly. Thousands of Americans lost their jobs and she got tens of
millions of dollars as a firing bonus, and not only that, they gave her
average employee's annual salary to cover her "financial and legal
expenses."

If they were spending gov't money I could see why you would get upset but
they are risking their own money.

People who worked for HP for a decade or more lost their homes. It's awful
goddamn casual to say 'Aw, well, they're risking their own money.'

If HP had made billions as a result of their new CEO I'm sure you wouldn't
have a problem sharing in that.

If they had made billions she would have been worth the 40-odd million
dollars they blew showing her the door, wouldn't they?
How many engineers--who actually contributed to the success of the
company--can you hire for forty million dollars they paid to fire her.

Sure the owners can do whatever they want. But they're not doing it with
my stock investments. I'll save it for a company who doesn't have its head
up some bazillionairre's ass.

All this bull**** about "risking money" might sound great in a boardroom or
on Wall Street, but when people's livelihoods are at stake it's about equal
to talking about it in Vegas.

You guys can justify it all you want, but, Hewlett Packard is a shell--a
joke--of what it was when I was there in 1993 when employees were happy,
jobs were secure and HP inket and laser printers were worldwide industry and
technology leaders.

-c

On Nov 26, 4:54 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Yet pilots want to work for them. I guess what ever they are getting
from it is enough to put up with any downside.

Not so much anymore. They, along with other regionals, are canceling
flights from lack of crews. Take a look at their turn over.

-Robert

Since labor can strike as long as they
want and the employers can't replace them ([...])


Since when?

On Nov 26, 7:37 pm, Newps wrote:
Since labor can strike as long as they
want and the employers can't replace them ([...])

Since when?

Oh yea, your a controller!