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#21
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s Ron noted
earlier, the senior Novosel was awarded the MoH for action during that conflict. He died eight or ten years ago, again IIRC. Brooks I am pretty sure he is still alive. Another interesting bit of trivia. The son was shot down while flying the UH-1, the father rescued them. Six days later, the fathers helo goes down, and this time the son is the one rescueing the dad. Ron PA-31T Cheyenne II Maharashtra Weather Modification Program Pune, India |
#22
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"BUFDRVR" wrote in message ... Ragnar wrote: Then we've been in different "real Air Forces". I'm puzzled. Granted, I'm relatively "new" in the big scheme of things, but I can recall squadron, group and yes wing commanders leading flights in nearly every conflict since the birth of an independant Air Force. LeMay, as Group commander led his group in its part in the Scweinfurt-Regensberg mission, so it appears senior leaders have been leading combat strikes since at least WWII. Billy Mitchell flew in the St. Mihel offensive, and he was the second ranking U.S. aviator in France. I'm not doubting your experience, just curious as to what time period we're comparing here? \ My time period is 1983 and forward. My most recent flying wing had a wing/cc that flew once a month and had an IP in the left seat the whole time. The ops grp/cc was the same. All of the senior staff had an IP (or equivalent) ride with them. They simply weren't qualified to fly the jet unassisted. |
#23
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#24
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On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 01:31:38 +0900, "Ragnar"
wrote: My time period is 1983 and forward. My most recent flying wing had a wing/cc that flew once a month and had an IP in the left seat the whole time. The ops grp/cc was the same. All of the senior staff had an IP (or equivalent) ride with them. They simply weren't qualified to fly the jet unassisted. Used to be an AF reg that a general officer had to fly with an IP. The trend for Wing CC's to be B/G would make what you encountered logical. I recall, however, when I had a Wing CC at a pilot training base make B/G, that he continued to fly with students, because he himself was "an IP aboard". Also, as recounted in Tom Clancy's book "Every Man a Tiger", Chuck Horner was flying F-16 missions single-seat during DS. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8 |
#25
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Ron wrote;
Another interesting bit of trivia. The son was shot down while flying the UH-1, the father rescued them. Six days later, the fathers helo goes down, and this time the son is the one rescueing the dad. I heard this story told, in person, when Novosel came to speak to my SOS class. According to Novosel, he put his helo down immediately beside his son's downed bird, but was forced to run over 100 yards through mud and swamp just a few days later when his son picked him up. He said he reminds his son of that fact to this day. BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
#26
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Ed Rasimus wrote:
Used to be an AF reg that a general officer had to fly with an IP. Still is....I think. BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
#27
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Ragnar wrote:
My time period is 1983 and forward. My most recent flying wing had a wing/cc that flew once a month and had an IP in the left seat the whole time. I guess the situation depends on your MWS. In the BUFF world, the only senior leaders requiring an IP on every sortie were our B/G Wing Commanders. Our O-6 Wing/CCs and below all were fully qualified instructors. Now, granted, depending on what was going on some of these guys "dropped dead" on currencies now and again and were required to get re-current with an instructor on board, but they all flew the minimum RAP sorties every month (usually) and in reality and on paper were FMC instructors. In fact, best A/R instruction I ever received as a young co-pilot was from our Wing/CV. BUFDRVR "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips everyone on Bear Creek" |
#28
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"Ron" wrote in message ... s Ron noted earlier, the senior Novosel was awarded the MoH for action during that conflict. He died eight or ten years ago, again IIRC. Brooks I am pretty sure he is still alive. It appears you are right, from what I have since found on the web. At least he was alive last year when he testified before congress regarding the award criteria for the combat medic badge! My mistake... Brooks Another interesting bit of trivia. The son was shot down while flying the UH-1, the father rescued them. Six days later, the fathers helo goes down, and this time the son is the one rescueing the dad. Ron PA-31T Cheyenne II Maharashtra Weather Modification Program Pune, India |
#30
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Tank Fixer wrote in message k.net...
In article , on 18 Jun 2004 04:11:27 GMT, ArtKramr attempted to say ..... Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions From: (1LT 15B in AH-64D) Date: 6/17/04 4:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: I am a 1LT in the Army National Guard, an Aviator, and I would like to go on active duty. I have done some research and my options are to apply to the Active Guard and Reserve or enter as a warrant. I have been surrounded by warrants and I like them and there responsibilities are real important and it would be a great honor to be counted in their ranks. I cannot find out if I have to go to WOC school or not. I have been to Federal OCS at Benning and a Federal Law Enforcement Academy. I am interested in finding out if I have to attend yet another candidate school. I hear it both ways but no AR has been pointed out that states the facts definitively. Thanks for your help. My deal is that I am in a Federal Law Enforcement Agency and I am facing a board that is known for dropping you without a thought. It is a spanish board and I have never spoken the language before the academy, but I graduated so I am in better shape for this test than the fellows that did not make it. I am just thinking about the future permutations of my situation, including leaving this agency and going into active duty. Warrants definitely fly the most, are the IPs usually, the SPs almost all the time (standardization pilots, the men that decide how something will be done if there is any disagreement) Maintenance test pilots, and PCs usually. I used to think that a Warrant was not given the opportunity to lead as is the Real Life Officer, RLO, but that was an immature thought. I understand now that it is not the rank that does a leader make, but your personal gifts and the example of leaders that taught you. A PC is the undisputed responsible party for the safety and success of the crew. Warrants take command all the time, so I don't need to be an O to take care of soldiers and to help the Army. I will hold on to my current position, because if I am released from duty with my current employer, my guard unit still needs to send me to a 6 month school to get qualified in the Longbow, and by that time if I am reinstated the hiring freeze will be off of my agency after the new fiscal year. Plus I love my civilian/federal job and want to stick it our first. Something else, Warrants are usually the SPs, IPs, IEs, MPs, DES pilots, etc, technically expert pilots in other words, because they don't have to fly a desk as often as the planners, the real life officers. I think I can sense a split in this thread, between USAF and USA. I don't think that there are very many warrants in the USAF so it doesn't make sensein their minds to go from a LT or CPT or even MAJ to a WO1 or WO2. In the Army we have a lot of warrants, I mean ALOT and they are very important for advising the RLOs and helping us make the best decisions. The fact that our aviation units are based on platoons would indicate why USAF personnel would seem out of touch with this subject. Army aviation seems to work alot like a regular army unit, we just get into trucks and tanks that have a vertical lift component. Of course the fixed wing assets we do have are pretty much all flown by warrants too. Anyhoo, if I can pass this spanish board, and another one 3 months down the road, then it is two more years and I will be able to fly for this agency I am in now, and that is the current plan. |
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