PowerFlarm BRICK range issues - are we alone????

On Monday, October 1, 2012 4:23:38 PM UTC-7, (unknown) wrote:
On Monday, October 1, 2012 11:49:32 AM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:

Mark, how is your config file setup?







Kirk



Kirk,



For lateral range initially I had no values in my config so the assumption is default should be maximum. Next time out I have a new config file which I've chosen 9000 meters for the lateral range for the PCAS function which equates to 5 miles. That's equivalent to the Zaon. I'd like to hope that this will help. The absolute silence from the manufacturer makes me more and more suspicious that there is yet another hardware issue going on here..

I tried that. It did not make any difference...
I heard second hand that Powerflarm USA confirmed the PCAS issue is a software problem which they are going to address.

Ramy

Discus 2b owner here. I have the brick installed with the supplied dipole antennas on the glare shield in "other than an optimal placement" and I have no issues seeing gliders out to 6nm. At times, they do drop out, but are reacquired relatively quickly. Circling tilted carbon fiber tends to block the signal at times. Also, as far as I can tell, performance has not changed with the new firmware update. I have flown with Richard (Craggy Aero) and he sees me without issue as I see him. The only ADSB contact I remember was an airliner flying overhead at altitude. As far as I can tell, the units are performing as advertised. If you have range issues, I'm guessing it's not the electronic architecture. Now if they could just get the .IGC file going.....

Regarding PCAS performance on the PF Brick, my suspicions are that it is not alerting soon enough. Also, the Butterfly display speaker is too feeble to get my attention at times.

Last Sun 09/30/2012 while flying a 500km OLC flight out of Cal City I was in a near mid-air with a Mooney at 8500msl. I was cruising WSW bound and the Mooney was NW bound. First saw the aircraft approximately 5-10 seconds before a potential collision. At the same time, I heard a weak chirp from the PF Bufferfly and a circle on the screen at plus/minus 100feet. It passed by me 500feet horizontally.

My impression is that the PCAS sensitivity for an audible alarm needs to be increased. A louder speaker is a necessity. Perhaps one could set two sensitivity levels for audible alertss.

The unit was upgraded to fw 2.40 on 09/29. Here's the antenna installation:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/463771/MyGl...a_SideView.JPG

Forward dipole is the ADS-B; rear one is FLARM

Regarding FLARM range... I haven't flown with any other FLARM equipped glider yet. Phil Gaisford flew my Discus 2A "WX" at the NATS in Montague and he reported that the range and detection was ok.

Walt Rogers, WX

On Monday, October 1, 2012 10:52:54 PM UTC-7, WaltWX wrote:
Regarding PCAS performance on the PF Brick, my suspicions are that it is not alerting soon enough. Also, the Butterfly display speaker is too feeble to get my attention at times.



Last Sun 09/30/2012 while flying a 500km OLC flight out of Cal City I was in a near mid-air with a Mooney at 8500msl. I was cruising WSW bound and the Mooney was NW bound. First saw the aircraft approximately 5-10 seconds before a potential collision. At the same time, I heard a weak chirp from the PF Bufferfly and a circle on the screen at plus/minus 100feet. It passed by me 500feet horizontally.



My impression is that the PCAS sensitivity for an audible alarm needs to be increased. A louder speaker is a necessity. Perhaps one could set two sensitivity levels for audible alertss.



The unit was upgraded to fw 2.40 on 09/29. Here's the antenna installation:



https://dl.dropbox.com/u/463771/MyGl...a_SideView.JPG



Forward dipole is the ADS-B; rear one is FLARM



Regarding FLARM range... I haven't flown with any other FLARM equipped glider yet. Phil Gaisford flew my Discus 2A "WX" at the NATS in Montague and he reported that the range and detection was ok.



Walt Rogers, WX

The butterfly panel display is noticeably louder than the rectangular display.

Ramy

Thanks for the reply. This is exactly what I was looking for. There are some people that are getting 6nm range on their units. That's a lot better than 1.5nm if you're trying to catch up with a buddy. The question is how do I get to that kind of range?

Separately it seems I'm not alone with the PCAS range. Others are also reporting PCAS range of well under 1 mile. The product which they are delivering is not meeting a reasonable expectation of performance (particularly in PCAS) for which they and their dealers are advertising. Sub 1 mile PCAS range is basically worthless.

My antenna installation is very similar to the one someone else posted and you can see a pic here...

http://thezivleys.com/gliderstuff/flarmantennas.gif




Discus 2b owner here. I have the brick installed with the supplied dipole antennas on the glare shield in "other than an optimal placement" and I have no issues seeing gliders out to 6nm.

On Tuesday, October 2, 2012 8:17:31 AM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
Thanks for the reply. This is exactly what I was looking for. There are some people that are getting 6nm range on their units. That's a lot better than 1.5nm if you're trying to catch up with a buddy. The question is how do I get to that kind of range? Separately it seems I'm not alone with the PCAS range. Others are also reporting PCAS range of well under 1 mile. The product which they are delivering is not meeting a reasonable expectation of performance (particularly in PCAS) for which they and their dealers are advertising. Sub 1 mile PCAS range is basically worthless. My antenna installation is very similar to the one someone else posted and you can see a pic here... http://thezivleys.com/gliderstuff/flarmantennas.gif Discus 2b owner here. I have the brick installed with the supplied dipole antennas on the glare shield in "other than an optimal placement" and I have no issues seeing gliders out to 6nm.

Unless it has a plastic case, you compass is not helping the situation. PF wants NO metal above the plane antennas are mounted on.
UH

While I doubt that the compass is causing issues, I'm actually going to remove it next flight to test that theory.

Further, if you look at pages 3 and 5 of the antenna mounting guide

http://powerflarm.us/wp-content/uplo..._ANTENNAS1.pdf

I draw your attention to the two pictures with the big Green circle with the check mark in them. In both, they have a compass not far from the Flarm antenna in very much the same configuration. Further, there is no specific mention of compass separation in the manual.

I'm going to test without the compass, but I really doubt this will be an issue. One other pilot in our group already flew without a compass and no better luck on his end either.

Mark


Unless it has a plastic case, you compass is not helping the situation. PF wants NO metal above the plane antennas are mounted on.

UH

On Monday, October 1, 2012 1:43:20 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
I think there is a consensus on 3 issues:

1 - Poor PCAS performance.

Will be fixed with firmware update.

2 - Poor flarm performance in portables, but not bricks.
Most bricks I know of getting 2-3 miles which is plenty enough
for collision avoidance if you pay attention immediately.

US portables will be recalled to make FLARM hardware equivalent to Bricks (which have more than sufficient range for collision avoidance)

3 - The support and manuals sucks.
Point taken.

Expect to see action on all three points before the end of November.
FLARM

No expert, but the Navy gave us enough antenna design/installation info so we usually wouldn't sink ships. That said:

The pictures show the center fed dipole with the coax feed coming from the front. Would be better with it coming from aft so the coax will have less of an effect on the radiation pattern. Also, better if the coax remained perpendicular for a bit more distance, maybe 3-4 inches, before heading down.

Given that the forward hemisphere is of most concern, then tandem mounting looks to be least desirable as one antenna interfers with the other. A side-by-side arrangement is better, assuming there is room to still keep them separated by roughly 6 or more inches.

Assume the black brackets shown in one picture are non-metalic and not filled with lots of carbon black for color?

Some improvement may be had by shortening the excess coax lead. The antenna base will disassemle and with requisite soldering skill the leads can be shortened instead of folded up behind the panel.

I borrowed Rex's idea, as used on 3U and shown he http://www.valleysoaring.net/?page_id=1487

Makes for a cleaner install than with antennas over the glareshield. It will also allow for some experimentation with moving the antennas fore and aft changing there separation to see how that effects range.

bumper

US portables will be recalled to make FLARM hardware equivalent to Bricks (which have more than sufficient range for collision avoidance)

when and where will units be sent?

anticipated turn-around time?

would like to have my PF back in time for U.S. 2013 spring season.

Brad