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#51
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"Spiv" wrote in message ... "Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ... "Spiv" wrote in message ... "Brett" wrote in message ... The USA did give tasters to many buyers. True. OTOH at least one of the lost Comets was on some kind of round the world publicity stunt. Same difference. Boeing tasters were financial. The VC10 was a superior plane to the 707 and it did not sell well either. Vickers designed an aircraft to the questionable requirements of a single customer. It wasn't the requirements, it was the timing. When the VC10 appeared on the market it's competitors had already been in service for six and four years and ironically the restricted 'hot and high' runways of Africa and the Middle East for which the Standard VC10 had specifically been developed would eventually all be lengthened to accommodate the 707 and DC-8, in the process eliminating the VC10's main advantage. Had the original V.1000 been built it would have been in time to compete but the VC10 was just too late. The VC10 was a superior plane with passengers loving it as the engines were all aft making the cabin quieter with less vibration. It was less susceptible to turbulence with a superior wing design. It was more expensive to operate. The Super VC10 was cheaper to run beating the US planes. By then it was too late, Boeing and Douglas were entrenched in the world's airlines. Only much later did the Airbus knock Boeing off its throne. Airbus knocked BCAG off their throne? Yes..... Tuesday, December 23, 2003 Airbus meets delivery goal to be 'market leader' Nope, the EU taxpayer bought a big piece of the airliner market by mortgaging their children's future. |
#52
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"Brett" wrote in message ... "Spiv" wrote: snip The Chinese bought the VC10. In 1980 they ordered more planes after being fully satisfied with the planes performance and running costs. Vickers were facing opened up the production line after 11 years. The Chinese bought the Trident! Oops you are right, the smaller T tail. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.564 / Virus Database: 356 - Release Date: 20/01/2004 |
#53
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In article ,
"Spiv" writes: "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net... "Spiv" wrote in message ... Then pay attention. What for? It's clear you don't know what you're talking about. Where do you have a problem, then I ca help you. You didn't get the point. Please focus. You didn'r make a point. The point is nothing from the Comet went into the design of Boeing's bombers or the 707. The engineering/metallurgy side did. You know too much about these sorts of things do you? Horse****, Spiv! Go peruse the U.S. Natioanal Advisory Comittee Technical Reports availalable online through the NASA Tech Reports Server. Then check out the UK Aeronautical Research Comittee papers available from Cranwell, also available online, and searchable through the same server. (Reciprocity is a good thing). You'll find that, if anything, the information flow, wrt structures, and the fatigue bahavior of metals, went the other way. (US-UK). U.S. work on, and concern with, metal fatigue began in the 1930s. And was continually refined. DeHaviland had been warned many times about the choices that they had made in the design of the Comet's structure, but they felt that their use of Redux Bonding to join metal parts gave them superior performance. (Turned out that they couldn't use Redux in many areas, and so, it was back to drilled holes & rivets.) Eastern Airlines evaliated the COmet prototype in 1950, and rejected any consideration of it due to concerns about the fatigue resistance of the structure. Nobody at DehHaviland seemed to be paying attention. DeHaviland made a number of bad choices in the design of the Comet I/IA. The airfoil provided knife-edge takeoff performance, for instance. On taneoff, a Comet had to be rotated to exactly 10 degrees AOA, at exactly the right speed, or it wouldn't take off. An early pullup, or anything over 10 degrees, meant that the increased Induced Drag would keep the airplane from accelerating. A late pull, or an AoA of 9 degrees, meant that there wasn't a runwal in All of Christendom, (or, for that matter, Karachi, Pakistan), that was long enough for the Comet to get off the ground. When you add in the other accidents that wrote off Comets, about half of all Comet I/IAs that were built were total losses before they were pulled from service. The 707, and, for that matter, the 367-80, used an entire different philosophy in structural design. It was designed with multiple load paths and a fail-safe structure, such that small problems would be, as far as possible prevented from becoming big ones. Don't forget, that between teh B-29, B-50, B-377/C-97, B-47, and B-52, All of which flew before the COmet was grounded, Boeing had more large pressurized airplane and large jet airplane experience than the rest of the world, combined. To add some Military Content. The groundings and losses did not necessarily mean the immediate scrapping of the Comet I. DH _did_ infact, come up with a rebuild program that would allow the airplane to have some useful life. The only Comet Customer who took them up on this was the Royal Canadian Air Force, which had purchased two Comets to support the First Air Division in Europe. These remained in service until the early 1960s. -- Pete Stickney A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures. -- Daniel Webster |
#54
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"Gord Beaman" ) wrote in message . ..
"Keith Willshaw" wrote: On the 4th October 1958 two B.O.A.C. Comet 4s inaugurated the first regular transatlantic jet passenger service - another first for British innovation. But not non-stop, it had to stop in Newfoundland to refuel while the 707 made the journey non stop. I suggest you work on your reading skills. Keith Now now Keith. Newfoundland is on the western edge of the Atlantic so it WAS 'transatlantic' wasn't it?... No! Since we have to keep reminding the British that the *Vikings*, not the British discovered New Foundland. And when they did it, there *was no* Atlantic Ocean. |
#56
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"Spiv" wrote in message ... The Boeing 314 was the first transatlantic airplane service in 1939. The topic is "jet" airliners. Thats not what the Subject header says Keith |
#57
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:10:36 -0700, Ed Rasimus
wrote: What does the cross-posting of this DeHavilland Comet discussion to rec.aviation.military under the subject "Why We lost the Vietnam War" mean???????? It means you should have swapped your Thud for a Comet and then the North Vietnamese politburo would have been on their knees begging for mercy within days. If they'd tried to hold out, you could have threatened them with Dan Air Charter flight economy-class seats and their final ounce of defiance would have evaporated. Gavin Bailey |
#58
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#59
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On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 00:43:07 +0000, John Mullen
wrote: snip How about a discussion of the effectivness of jet airliners as submarines ? -- Jim Watt http://www.gibnet.com |
#60
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In article ,
Iain Rae wrote: Spiv wrote: snip The Chinese bought the VC10. In 1980 they ordered more planes after being fully satisfied with the planes performance and running costs. Vickers were facing opened up the production line after 11 years. have you got a cite for that I've never heard of the chinese operating the VC10 never mind trying to buy more (apart from anything else I'd have half expected the RAF to but new airframes if the production line was opening up again). I think he's thinking of the De Havilland Trident, which the Chinese certainly used extensively (and built under licence). Pretty sure the VC10 wsn't sold there (or many other places [1]). [1] Though the Ilyshin-62 certainly suggests - by eye at least - that someone had taken a long, hard look at a Super VC10 before picking up their pencil. -- Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/ "Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas) |
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