The most probable origin of NASA moon rocks

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
...
Snuffy Smith wrote:

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
...

Bill Silvey wrote:

"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
e.com

snip

Komrad Mikey, why do you continue on with this outrageous stupidity?

I know your burning hatred for everyone not Russian or who doesn't
adhere to the Soviet point of view clouds your vision quite a bit,
but I *do* find itamazing that you can't accept scientific facts -
that the United States sent not one but three men to the moon,
all of whom returned successfully, several times.
That your nation failed to do so has to be the only reason
for this continued petulence on your part.

If I were you I'd seek psychological help, but not in your
own nation, good lord no!
Please, seek *reliable* mental health care somewhere in the west.

Please, Mr. Silvey.
Why would you want to invite Mr. Petukhov out of Russia.
They have especially well developed psychiatric facilities in Russia,
left over from the soviet system.
--
Rostyk

Yeah but Sticky, you know perfectly well...insane people were not
kept in Russian whacko bins. They were for housing handicapped
and the political disbelievers.

Oh sure. But the inmates were still given psychiatric treatments.
By real russian psychiatrists.
And I'd rather see those good doctors continue to practice
in russia, rather than emigrate and find work elsewhere e.g.
in Israel or for the US government.


It may not be such a terrible thing...I mean the South Americans
(Brazilians?) didn't seem to mind all that much when Mengele came to town.

There's a lot of news going around lately about Siamese twins being
successfully separated. If Mengele had continued his practice, by now he
could have gotten pretty good at sewing twins together. He could then refer
them to doctors who would take them apart and they would later refer them
back to Mengele. It would have been a been windfall for the medical
profession.

"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...


Not necessary. This is because you are not a scientist Keith.
Otherwise you would know that humans never landed
on Sun and other distant stars (at least officially) but
its material compositions are known from spectroscopy data.
Some elements (helium for instance) were first discovered on
Sun and only after that was found on Earth.

Spectroscopy will tell you what elements are present and in what
proportions but can tell you nothing about the structure of the
objects themselves. Diamond, graphite and hard coal all show
up as carbon in a spctroscopic analysis

But you know this Michael so you seem to be being somewhat
less than wholly truthful.

As for the Lunar
materials... well a standard marker composition can be easily
measured by an automatical probe and results send here by radio.
They did send automatical probes (Surveyors) to moon prior
"manned missions", did'n they? Moreover it was easy to guess
about some picularities of moon rocks, like extreme lack of
water or free oxigen and certain minerals which are known to
originate from nonexistent on moon processes. Given big enough
meteorite collection it is easy to design such a marker set.
Just a piece of cake, Keith!


Nonsense Michael, this tells you nothing about the structure
of the rocks, the density, crystalline structure, evidence of
folding and distribution. All vital to the geologist.

As an example the microscopic pitting and high helium 3
surface content of the surface layer on rocks recovere by
both the soviet and lunar sampling efforts was unexpected.
These are believed to be caused by micrometeoroid impacts
and interaction with the solar wind are unque to those samples
retrieved from the moon as the meteorites of lunar origin have
the surface burned away on re-entry

by the way Keith so far NASA did not claim to land man on
Mars or in asteroid belt rocks, but meteorites from all
these places are easy to recognize and of course is on
sell with certificates as well.


Because since the 1960's much more advanced automated
landers have been available.

So if you believe the Americans faked their samples
by buying lunar meteorites they would have to know
the nature of the lunar rocks or to fake or get the
Soviets to buy similar fakes for their lander several
years later.

"If" is not a proper wording here, keith. They knew for sure.


Hardly Michael , the surveyor probes which landed on the
moon in the late 60's had primitive sampling mechanisms
which were pretty much limited to performing soil
mechanics tests. They were sent to check that the surface
was hard enough to land on.

The experiments performed were

1) Alpha Scattering Surface analyser used to determine the
abundances of the major elements of the lunar surface with
the important exceptions of hydrogen, helium, and lithium

2) Surface bearing tests using strain gauges , accelerometers
and rate gyros

I find it comical that you claim advanced automatic lab facilities
capable of a full analysis were available when in you earlier
post you were stressing how primitive the available computers
were.


Then of course their the problem of buying 400 kg
of different meteorite fragments with nobody noticing.

why? somebody was noticing. As far as I know so far no
lunar meteorites were officially found in US soil
while it is estimated to be around of a few % of all
meteorites found today. Don't you think it is a bit of
strange give US with US huge deserts?

Since nobody knew what a lunar meteorite looked like
until after Apollo 11 returned its precisely what any
sane person would expect.

Although of course
you don't. particularly given that NASA was known to buy
lots of them from privat persons all over the world.



I'm afraid all you did is demonstrate how prejudice
can lead even intelligent people astary.

Never say never, Keith. European SMART-1 is on the way to moon
and japanese Lunar-A and Selene are getting ready to follow soon.
They can send us very unexpected pictures of Apollo landing sites.
US privat company's "TrailBlazer" can do in principle but who in
a good mind can trust US data? Not me at least.


Doubtless you'll use some other excuse when pictures of the
Apollo Landers are beamed back.

Keith

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
.. .
Snuffy Smith wrote:


Well not you obviously!
Though I don't remember Leonov.


On the contrary his spacewalk was covered on tv
at prime time and the Soyuz Apollo mission was
top TV viewing.

Keith

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:36:51 GMT,
(D.K.) wrote:

In article , "usertx" wrote:

"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
.com...


indeed. although as far as I know USSR also never officialy said these
lunar expeditions were for real. It was ignored in fact. USSR was
perhaps the only country in the world where "US moon landings" were
not broadcasted live on TV.

Michael

US moon landings were broadcasting in USSR! You are just too young to
remember.

Yep, they were broadcast. I vaguely remember it when I was a kid.

What I'd like to know is how widely Soviet space achievements
(Sputnik, Gagarin, Leonov, Tereshkova) were popularized in the USA?

Popularized no, reported yes.

Peter Skelton

"D.K." wrote in message

In article , "usertx"
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...

indeed. although as far as I know USSR also never officialy said
these lunar expeditions were for real. It was ignored in fact.
USSR was perhaps the only country in the world where "US moon
landings" were not broadcasted live on TV.

US moon landings were broadcasting in USSR! You are just too young
to remember.

Yep, they were broadcast. I vaguely remember it when I was a kid.
What I'd like to know is how widely Soviet space achievements
(Sputnik, Gagarin, Leonov, Tereshkova) were popularized in the USA?

I don't think "popularized" is the right word. Right from the first
one (I remember going out in the yard at night with my mother to spot
Sputnik twinkling over), it shocked the Hell out of Americans. We just
couldn't understand how those primitive, incompetent Russkis could
accomplish this! Of course, now we know they did it by spying and
stealing Western scientific info/techniques/equipment, but still...

"Snuffy Smith" wrote in message
. net

Michael, you have been smoking that Afghani hashish again!

I think he's moved on to massive doses of LSD-25.

"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in
message
...
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in
message
...
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...
"Mark Test" wrote in message
...
And this has what to do with sci.military.naval????

Lots. For instance US NAVY was playing an important role in
the US
moon
landing hoax. After all it was NAVY who recovered return
module with new portion of US heros.

Michael


Micheal just wants to establish his credibility so we all know
how seriously to take him when he posts on other topics.

Hm... never minded about my credibility in this NG particularly
in your Keith eyes. It is you Keith who care so much about
my credibility every time I post something new on US moon
landing hoax.



I think he's doing a good job


Sure I do a good job. now even you Keith know where
NASA took their 400+kg of moon rocks. Not bad indeed.


You'll have to try harder than that Michael

The only way we know so called Lunar meteorites are
from the moon is by comparing them with the samples
retrieved.
There are only two sources for such reference
samples, the Apollo Missions and the Soviet lander


Not necessary. This is because you are not a scientist Keith.
Otherwise you would know that humans never landed
on Sun and other distant stars (at least officially) but
its material compositions are known from spectroscopy data.
Some elements (helium for instance) were first discovered on
Sun and only after that was found on Earth. As for the Lunar
materials... well a standard marker composition can be easily
measured by an automatical probe and results send here by radio.
They did send automatical probes (Surveyors) to moon prior
"manned missions", did'n they? Moreover it was easy to guess
about some picularities of moon rocks, like extreme lack of
water or free oxigen and certain minerals which are known to
originate from nonexistent on moon processes. Given big enough
meteorite collection it is easy to design such a marker set.
Just a piece of cake, Keith!

by the way Keith so far NASA did not claim to land man on
Mars or in asteroid belt rocks, but meteorites from all
these places are easy to recognize and of course is on
sell with certificates as well.

So if you believe the Americans faked their samples
by buying lunar meteorites they would have to know
the nature of the lunar rocks or to fake or get the
Soviets to buy similar fakes for their lander several
years later.

"If" is not a proper wording here, keith. They knew for sure.


Then of course their the problem of buying 400 kg
of different meteorite fragments with nobody noticing.

why? somebody was noticing. As far as I know so far no
lunar meteorites were officially found in US soil
while it is estimated to be around of a few % of all
meteorites found today. Don't you think it is a bit of
strange give US with US huge deserts? Although of course
you don't. particularly given that NASA was known to buy
lots of them from privat persons all over the world.



I'm afraid all you did is demonstrate how prejudice
can lead even intelligent people astary.

Never say never, Keith. European SMART-1 is on the way to moon
and japanese Lunar-A and Selene are getting ready to follow soon.
They can send us very unexpected pictures of Apollo landing sites.
US privat company's "TrailBlazer" can do in principle but who in
a good mind can trust US data? Not me at least.

Michael


Keith

"Snuffy Smith" wrote in message
. net
"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
...
Bill Silvey wrote:
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om

snip
Komrad Mikey, why do you continue on with this outrageous
stupidity?
I know your burning hatred for everyone not Russian or who
doesn't adhere to the Soviet point of view clouds your vision
quite a bit, but I *do* find it amazing that you can't accept
scientific facts - that the United States sent not one but three
men to the moon, all of whom returned successfully, several
times. That your nation failed to do so has to be the only
reason for this continued petulence on your part.
If I were you I'd seek psychological help, but not in your own
nation, good lord no! Please, seek *reliable* mental health care
somewhere in the west.

Please, Mr. Silvey.
Why would you want to invite Mr. Petukhov out of Russia.
They have especially well developed psychiatric facilities in
Russia, left over from the soviet system.

Yeah but Sticky, you know perfectly well...insane people were not
kept in Russian whacko bins. They were for housing handicapped and
the political disbelievers.

Not exclusively. And shurley they have at least *one* comfortable,
padded-wall room available for Mikey. Russians are an extremely
emotional, sympathetic people - I think they'd take pity on such a
terrible case of derangement and put him away where he can't hurt
himself.

"Garrison Hilliard" wrote:

"Snuffy Smith" wrote:
Michael, you have been smoking that Afghani
hashish again!

Michael desperately needs to meet Buzz Aldrin's
fist!


p.s. Seventy-two years old and still able to
clock the lunatic... GO BUZZ!
That's just what Buzz did a few months ago in L.A.; and the LA District
Attorney didn't get involved. When astronauts and conspiracy theorists get
together, the astronauts win. Now if we could get Michael and Buzz, Al Bean,
Dave Scott, and Gene Cernan all together in the same room....

Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

"Snuffy Smith" wrote in message
. net

The question is how long before China implodes like the Soviet
Union????

Ahem. putting on Historian Hat - the one I earned specializing in
Governmental Evolution Thirty years ago, I loudly predicted that the
Communist Empire in China would last no more than 100 years. And that
after about 50 years, the nature of their new Imperial Class would
change.
This has been the record of EVERY group that took over China over the
millenia - HUGE changes *at first*, then gradually absorbed by the
inherent Chinese inertia. The current Chinese Empire is, so far,
cooperating with me - it's not even vaguely "Communist" any longer,
it's rapidly changing into a traditional Fascist state. The biggest
indicator of that is the way the PLA/PLAN are spending far more
manpower & resources & time on managing/developing their commercial
enterprises than they are on "military" affairs.

"Snuffy Smith" wrote:

:"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
.. .
: (D.K.) wrote:
:
: :What I'd like to know is how widely Soviet space achievements
: Sputnik, Gagarin, Leonov, Tereshkova) were popularized in the USA?
:
: Talked about? Sure. Popularized? Not so much.
:
: It didn't help that the Russians didn't allow TV broadcasts for a lot
: of this stuff out of fear that something might go wrong.
:
:Ever notice any of the parallels between current day China and the old
:Soviet Union?

Not really, no.

:That flu virus that started in China was known for months. The Chinese tried
:to black out the world on what was going on. People in China didn't even
:know there was a deadly flu bug swirling all around them.

I assume you're referring to SARS? Not a "flu bug". China actually
had public thermometers to check people on the street. You seem a bit
misinformed here.

:Now we see that they backed out on showing their space launch live.

This is typical of any semi-dictatorship.

:Then you have all that Falun Gong and Tibet persecution stuff.

Again, typical of any semi-dictatorship.

:The question is how long before China implodes like the Soviet Union????

It won't happen. China has been much more economically flexible than
the old Soviet Union was.


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw