FAA violations and accidents

I know of two accidents. In neither accident was anyone injured but in
both the plane was substantially damaged or totalled. The FAA sighted
the owner operator in both cases for violations involving the aircraft
logging. In one case they did not like the wording of the last annual
and in the other they did not like the wording or compliance (I am not
sure which) of an AD.

I wonder, does the FAA just automatically ask for the owners logbooks,
then peruse them until they find a violation? Or are these cases
unusual. In the case of the wording of the last annual, it had NOTHING
to do with the accident (he landed short, in the mud and flipped,
pilot error). The second, I am not sure, the engine failed, so
maintenance might be an issue.

Is there anywhere where an owner/operator can go to get his logbooks
"audited". Find deficiencies and the rectify them?

Is it approved to just keep the stickers from work done loose and not
pasted in and then paste them in later?

"Doug" wrote in message
om...
I know of two accidents. In neither accident was anyone injured but in
both the plane was substantially damaged or totalled. The FAA sighted
the owner operator in both cases for violations involving the aircraft
logging. In one case they did not like the wording of the last annual
and in the other they did not like the wording or compliance (I am not
sure which) of an AD.

I wonder, does the FAA just automatically ask for the owners logbooks,
then peruse them until they find a violation? Or are these cases
unusual. In the case of the wording of the last annual, it had NOTHING
to do with the accident (he landed short, in the mud and flipped,
pilot error). The second, I am not sure, the engine failed, so
maintenance might be an issue.

Is there anywhere where an owner/operator can go to get his logbooks
"audited". Find deficiencies and the rectify them?

Is it approved to just keep the stickers from work done loose and not
pasted in and then paste them in later?

No matter what you do the FAA will find something wrong even if they have to
change the rules to do so.

Ask around, or call the local FSDO for when you can bring your plane and log
books to a PACE program event.

These events are held regularly, and allow you to bring your plane and log
books to the field for an audit and inspection with no risk of being fined
or cited. Sort of like an amnesty program. And, it's free.








"Doug" wrote in message
om...
I know of two accidents. In neither accident was anyone injured but in
both the plane was substantially damaged or totalled. The FAA sighted
the owner operator in both cases for violations involving the aircraft
logging. In one case they did not like the wording of the last annual
and in the other they did not like the wording or compliance (I am not
sure which) of an AD.

I wonder, does the FAA just automatically ask for the owners logbooks,
then peruse them until they find a violation? Or are these cases
unusual. In the case of the wording of the last annual, it had NOTHING
to do with the accident (he landed short, in the mud and flipped,
pilot error). The second, I am not sure, the engine failed, so
maintenance might be an issue.

Is there anywhere where an owner/operator can go to get his logbooks
"audited". Find deficiencies and the rectify them?

Is it approved to just keep the stickers from work done loose and not
pasted in and then paste them in later?

"Dude" wrote in message ...

These events are held regularly, and allow you to bring your plane and log
books to the field for an audit and inspection with no risk of being fined
or cited. Sort of like an amnesty program. And, it's free.

Sounds great, but... The risk is not being fined or cited, the risk
is that you'll never be able to fly your plane home after the audit.
It's quite possible that a nitpicky inspector could ground your
airplane because of ancient paperwork issues (not safety related ones,
either). As far as I'm concerned, this program is like taking your
last 5 years of financial data to the IRS and asking them if they can
find a violation. Do you really want to open that can of worms?

When they say, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help",
you're not supposed to take 'em seriously :-)

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Well, I have never heard of anyone being held on the field at a Pace event.
If that were to happen, then we should all hear about it, and find out who
got fired.

OTOH, the FAA is the FAA. I suspect that your example is misleading,
because that type of plane is exactly what they want to fix. If a plane was
seriously dangerous due to physical imperfection, rather than log problems,
I suppose someone might get strongly pressured to not fly it out. But it
would have to be an obvious hazard that no reasonable pilot would want to
ignore.

If your example were real, the program would end up being a joke.



"John Galban" wrote in message
om...
"Dude" wrote in message
...

These events are held regularly, and allow you to bring your plane and
log
books to the field for an audit and inspection with no risk of being
fined
or cited. Sort of like an amnesty program. And, it's free.

Sounds great, but... The risk is not being fined or cited, the risk
is that you'll never be able to fly your plane home after the audit.
It's quite possible that a nitpicky inspector could ground your
airplane because of ancient paperwork issues (not safety related ones,
either). As far as I'm concerned, this program is like taking your
last 5 years of financial data to the IRS and asking them if they can
find a violation. Do you really want to open that can of worms?

When they say, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help",
you're not supposed to take 'em seriously :-)

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"Dude" wrote in message
...
Well, I have never heard of anyone being held on the field at a Pace
event.
If that were to happen, then we should all hear about it, and find out who
got fired.

OTOH, the FAA is the FAA. I suspect that your example is misleading,
because that type of plane is exactly what they want to fix. If a plane
was
seriously dangerous due to physical imperfection, rather than log
problems,
I suppose someone might get strongly pressured to not fly it out. But it
would have to be an obvious hazard that no reasonable pilot would want to
ignore.

There are very few FAA people that can tell an airworthy airframe from one
that is unairworthy. They can look over paperwork but beyond that don't
expect much..

John Galban wrote:
: When they say, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help",
: you're not supposed to take 'em seriously :-)

Or it's corollary:
"We're not happy, 'till you're not happy."

-Cory
--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

Dave Stadt wrote:
: There are very few FAA people that can tell an airworthy airframe from one
: that is unairworthy. They can look over paperwork but beyond that don't
: expect much..

... and if you look hard enough at *ANY* aircraft, you will conclude that it
unairworthy. One piece of non MIL-spec'd heat shrink tubing or wire end. One
lightbulb gotten at AutoZone rather than a PMA'd one. That one screw on the spinner
that wasn't torqued with a calibrated torque wrench. The list is long, but in true
leagaleaze, anything not done according to approved data is unacceptable.

I've heard horror stories about going to the FSDO for a CFI-checkride and
having the FAA droids comb over your aircraft. Alegedly one guy came in with a
plane that had a pin-head sized air bubble in the wet compass that couldn't be seen
without putting your head down on the floor and looking up at it. *POOF* unairworthy
(no air is acceptable). If you're lucky they'll let you ferry it home.

Again, "We're with the FAA and we're here to help..."

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

Dude wrote:

If a plane was
seriously dangerous due to physical imperfection, rather than log problems,
I suppose someone might get strongly pressured to not fly it out.

Nobody at the Teterboro FSDO is capable of determining this -- that's what your local
IA is supposed to do every year. PACE events are intended to uncover problems with
the paperwork; nothing more.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

Sure, we have all heard those stories, and I have been a victim of a similar
case of the letter over any sense whatsoever type of judgement.

However, NOT AT A PACE EVENT.

And, that is what's important. The FAA gives you can opportunity to get
their opinion with no penalty, so you can pencil whip or fix problems on
your own time without being grounded.



wrote in message
...
Dave Stadt wrote:
: There are very few FAA people that can tell an airworthy airframe from
one
: that is unairworthy. They can look over paperwork but beyond that don't
: expect much..

... and if you look hard enough at *ANY* aircraft, you will conclude that
it
unairworthy. One piece of non MIL-spec'd heat shrink tubing or wire end.
One
lightbulb gotten at AutoZone rather than a PMA'd one. That one screw on
the spinner
that wasn't torqued with a calibrated torque wrench. The list is long,
but in true
leagaleaze, anything not done according to approved data is unacceptable.

I've heard horror stories about going to the FSDO for a CFI-checkride and
having the FAA droids comb over your aircraft. Alegedly one guy came in
with a
plane that had a pin-head sized air bubble in the wet compass that
couldn't be seen
without putting your head down on the floor and looking up at it. *POOF*
unairworthy
(no air is acceptable). If you're lucky they'll let you ferry it home.

Again, "We're with the FAA and we're here to help..."

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************