Questions on landing at a towered airport

I should know the answers to these, but have gotten some conflicting
opinions without much authoritative reference, so wouldn't mind some more
from this NG .

When approaching a towered airport (Class D), suppose I am told a few miles
out "report a 3-mile right base, runway 23"... as often happens.

* Just to confirm what I think is true about what the controller wants me to
do: Fly as directly as possible (in the absence of other guidance, not
crossing the field or other downwind / upwind legs, and practicing
see/avoid ) to a point that is 3 miles away from the extended centerline,
and will intersect the extended centerline on a base leg to leave a
comfortable, but not longish final approach path, say a 1 mile final. E.g.
1 mile from the numbers on final, and 3 miles from the extended centerline
at a right angle, effectively a little over 3 miles straight line from the
numbers.

* Now when i am there, and report a 3-mile right base, if he tells me
"cleared to land, runway 23, you're #1", is that a hint or OK to dispense
with a squared off pattern, and make straight for the numbers, as reasonably
as I can manage in terms of flying the airplane safely?

* Do I really need to plan my descent so that I am TPA when reporting the
3-mile right base? I Really do not want to be. I'd rather be 2000 AGL,
which will give me a comfortable (but a little aggressive) descent with a
squarish pattern to the numbers, but also make much more feasible landing in
the airport environment, if not the numbers, should the engine stop. At
1000 AGL 3 miles out, there is just no hope of making the airport -- I'd
rather not be that low unless I really need to be. Is there any rule that
says I need to be at TPA when reporting to the controller points on the
pattern?

* Lastly, I've never flown into a Class C (or Class B) airport, but have a
fair amount of experience at Class D fields. Oh and I'm a new PPL with
circa 100 hrs. Is there anything I should be concerned about flying into a
Class C for the first time, or is my experience working at Class D and with
controllers going to serve me quite well? The two things I have heard is a)
don't expect to be reporting points on the pattern, you'll probably get
vectored to a final approach course (and that sounds easier), and b) brush
up on what you need to do for wake turbulence avoidance, since that will be
more probable....

Appreciate the thoughts and opinions of others with more experience!
T

Tman wrote:

* Just to confirm what I think is true about what the controller wants me to
do: Fly as directly as possible (in the absence of other guidance, not
crossing the field or other downwind / upwind legs, and practicing
see/avoid ) to a point that is 3 miles away from the extended centerline,
and will intersect the extended centerline on a base leg to leave a
comfortable, but not longish final approach path, say a 1 mile final. E.g.
1 mile from the numbers on final, and 3 miles from the extended centerline
at a right angle, effectively a little over 3 miles straight line from the
numbers.

Well, you have the sense right. It's an extension of the NORMAL BASE
LEG that goes three miles out (as if you had just turned from a three
mile wide downwind). The only issue is base leg shouldn't lead to
a one mile final.

* Now when i am there, and report a 3-mile right base, if he tells me
"cleared to land, runway 23, you're #1", is that a hint or OK to dispense
with a squared off pattern, and make straight for the numbers, as reasonably
as I can manage in terms of flying the airplane safely?

I wouldn't. Perhaps he intends to depart traffic ahead of your landing.


* Do I really need to plan my descent so that I am TPA when reporting the
3-mile right base? I Really do not want to be. I'd rather be 2000 AGL,
which will give me a comfortable (but a little aggressive) descent with a
squarish pattern to the numbers, but also make much more feasible landing in
the airport environment, if not the numbers, should the engine stop. At
1000 AGL 3 miles out, there is just no hope of making the airport -- I'd
rather not be that low unless I really need to be. Is there any rule that
says I need to be at TPA when reporting to the controller points on the
pattern?

No.


* Lastly, I've never flown into a Class C (or Class B) airport, but have a
fair amount of experience at Class D fields. Oh and I'm a new PPL with
circa 100 hrs. Is there anything I should be concerned about flying into a
Class C for the first time, or is my experience working at Class D and with
controllers going to serve me quite well? The two things I have heard is a)
don't expect to be reporting points on the pattern, you'll probably get
vectored to a final approach course (and that sounds easier), and b) brush
up on what you need to do for wake turbulence avoidance, since that will be
more probable....\

If they give you a reporting point you don't know where it is, confess
and they will give you something airport relative or just a vector.
Be prepared for vectors, but also be prepared to find the airport on
your own at any point in the arrival. You're just as likely to be
told to enter a downwind or base as being vectored to final but it
happens both ways. In absence of other instruction, I fly straight
for the numbers. The class B/C runways are usually sufficiently long
that I can turn base-to-final even at the threshold and still land and
be off by the first taxiway.

When you call up for departure, have your pencil ready. They will
issue you frequently a route (fly runway heading) an altitude (maintain
VFR at or below 3000 feet) a departure frequency (departure frequency
125.05) and a transponder code (squawk 0423) with possibly no warning.

As for wake turbulance, stay above their glide path on approach,
take off and if possible turn before crossing there's on departure.
You can always request a longer delay than standard. I'd rather
depart behind a turboprop than a 767 (usually Dulles figures this
out when sending out to taxi and gets that sequencing already).

"Tman" asked
When approaching a towered airport (Class D), suppose I am told a few
miles out "report a 3-mile right base, runway 23"... as often happens.

I frequently get this at KBJC, Jeffco -- oops -- Metro, Denver, Colorado. A
few years ago I stopped guessing and called the tower (on a land line) and
asked what they expected. I was told they expected me to fly a right base
and turn to a three mile final.

Ron has it exactly right. The only thing that I would add is that you will
find local variations...don't expect all towers to do things in the same
way. Tower managers run little fiefdoms in their own way. The specifics of
"Report x mile base" are not covered in the Air Traffic Control Handbook, so
there is no official document you can rely on (although I have a letter from
FAA HQ backing up what Ron said).

Bob Gardner

"Tman" N/A wrote in message
...
I should know the answers to these, but have gotten some conflicting
opinions without much authoritative reference, so wouldn't mind some more
from this NG .

When approaching a towered airport (Class D), suppose I am told a few
miles out "report a 3-mile right base, runway 23"... as often happens.

* Just to confirm what I think is true about what the controller wants me
to do: Fly as directly as possible (in the absence of other guidance, not
crossing the field or other downwind / upwind legs, and practicing
see/avoid ) to a point that is 3 miles away from the extended centerline,
and will intersect the extended centerline on a base leg to leave a
comfortable, but not longish final approach path, say a 1 mile final.
E.g. 1 mile from the numbers on final, and 3 miles from the extended
centerline at a right angle, effectively a little over 3 miles straight
line from the numbers.

* Now when i am there, and report a 3-mile right base, if he tells me
"cleared to land, runway 23, you're #1", is that a hint or OK to dispense
with a squared off pattern, and make straight for the numbers, as
reasonably as I can manage in terms of flying the airplane safely?

* Do I really need to plan my descent so that I am TPA when reporting the
3-mile right base? I Really do not want to be. I'd rather be 2000 AGL,
which will give me a comfortable (but a little aggressive) descent with a
squarish pattern to the numbers, but also make much more feasible landing
in the airport environment, if not the numbers, should the engine stop.
At 1000 AGL 3 miles out, there is just no hope of making the airport --
I'd rather not be that low unless I really need to be. Is there any rule
that says I need to be at TPA when reporting to the controller points on
the pattern?

* Lastly, I've never flown into a Class C (or Class B) airport, but have a
fair amount of experience at Class D fields. Oh and I'm a new PPL with
circa 100 hrs. Is there anything I should be concerned about flying into
a Class C for the first time, or is my experience working at Class D and
with controllers going to serve me quite well? The two things I have
heard is a) don't expect to be reporting points on the pattern, you'll
probably get vectored to a final approach course (and that sounds easier),
and b) brush up on what you need to do for wake turbulence avoidance,
since that will be more probable....

Appreciate the thoughts and opinions of others with more experience!
T

Bob Gardner wrote:

Ron has it exactly right. The only thing that I would add is that you
will find local variations...don't expect all towers to do things in the
same way. Tower managers run little fiefdoms in their own way. The
specifics of "Report x mile base" are not covered in the Air Traffic
Control Handbook, so there is no official document you can rely on
(although I have a letter from FAA HQ backing up what Ron said).


When I worked at a VFR tower with no radar that's what we expected too.
We also knew that no pilot knows what three miles is. So you get what
you get.

* Lastly, I've never flown into a Class C (or Class B) airport, but have a
fair amount of experience at Class D fields. Oh and I'm a new PPL with
circa 100 hrs. Is there anything I should be concerned about flying into a
Class C for the first time, or is my experience working at Class D and with
controllers going to serve me quite well?

Ron has covered your other points quite well, so I won't add anything
more there.

To answer your concern about landing at a Class C airport, in the
Midwest Class D doesn't usually have radar control. This means that
they are sequencing you visually, just like in the old movies from the
1930s, by using a guy with binoculars -- and not much else. This
means they'll tell you stuff like "report a 3-mile left base" -- cuz
that's all they CAN do.

Class C, however, has radar, which means they (usually, not always)
are able to issue vectors. They will tell you stuff like "Fly a
heading of 230" -- because they CAN.

In my experience, Class C is usually much easier to deal with than
Class D, precisely because the controller knows (and acts like he
knows) where everyone REALLY is, rather than relying on binoculars and
(often inaccurate) position reports. As a result, they are much more
positive with their control, telling you what to do and when to do
it.

As a newbie I found this control somewhat intimidating, for fear of
messing something up. Now, I find it easier, because all you really
have to do is follow their directions. It's like the difference
between driving in a strange city with directions and a map, or doing
it with just with the map. Both are possible, but good directions are
sure helpful.

The two things I have heard is a)
don't expect to be reporting points on the pattern, you'll probably get
vectored to a final approach course (and that sounds easier), and b) brush
up on what you need to do for wake turbulence avoidance, since that will be
more probable....

Yep, you don't call out your position in Class C airspace. They
should know your position as well as you do.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:



Class C, however, has radar, which means they (usually, not always)
are able to issue vectors.

Always when landing at the main airport.

"Newps" wrote in message
...


Then everyone help me out here too. In the same situation I always aim for a
point that with allow for a straight final, usually at least 1/4 to 1/2 mile
long, not the numbers. Is this considered in bad taste?

Then everyone help me out here too. In the same situation I always aim for a
point that with allow for a straight final, usually at least 1/4 to 1/2 mile
long, not the numbers. Is this considered in bad taste?

I don't know about bad taste, but at Class C airports my goal is
always to get my plane on the ground and out of the way ASAP within
the absolute framework of safety.

Therefore, if the runway is 8000 feet long (as it often is, at a Class
C airport), I aim for the numbers on base leg, and forego the long
final. If I'm uncomfortable with the runway length, I do a more
regular pattern. (All of this is presuming that there isn't a
Citation ahead of you on a 5-mile final, or something.)

You're PIC. In the absence of specific instructions, do what you
think is safe.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
...
..

To answer your concern about landing at a Class C airport, in the
Midwest Class D doesn't usually have radar control. This means that

You know I always thought so to, but out here in CT, I know that HFD Class D
(Hartford-Brainard) must have radar. Cause the controller tells me to ident
now and then -- seems to be that they must have radar, eh? Also, the BDL
approach controllers often hand me off to HFD tower with a non-1200 squawk
code. Seems that the Sectional charts have a bold circled "R" for those
Class D airports that have radar (?) -- HFD does not have that "R", but the
things i mentioned above sure hint towards having some kind of radar
visibility.

That said, they've always given me "report xxxx" position report request
when inbound, never got vectors from them....
T