Aerotow rope drogue chute?

I have a vague recollection that a while back someone
mentioned in passing that their club used a little
drougue chute near the glider end of the aerotow rope
to fly the rings higher during approach and landing.
Does that ring any bells? If so I would appreciate
some information - or did I just imagine it?

This sounds like bad news to me, it increases the risk that the rope may
foul the glider after release.

I recall that there was a fatality in New Zealand when the rope had a funnel
close to the end, to stabilise it; it also caused the rope to ride high.
The glider was a Slingsby Dart, and after release the rope wrapped round a
tailplane.

Also, in the U.K. there was a fatality to a Bocian flown solo when the rope
fouled the glider, I am not sure whether this was after release or due to a
bow in the rope.

Anything which might cause the rope to get close to the glider after release
should be avoided.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


"John Galloway" wrote in
message ...

I have a vague recollection that a while back someone
mentioned in passing that their club used a little
drougue chute near the glider end of the aerotow rope
to fly the rings higher during approach and landing.
Does that ring any bells? If so I would appreciate
some information - or did I just imagine it?

Why would a rope foul a glider tail plane unless it was a very slack line
and back released..

We use a "drag" device, wiffle balls, to help the tow rope "fly higher" than
with the weight of the Tost ring better clear the approach end fence, and to
keep the rope from "whipping" and tying itself in knots.

Of course, I'm told, that the people in OZ fly "low tow", below the prop
wash, so on release.. I can see where the rope will "ascend" and possible
smack the canopy if released with any slack.

I prefer to release at or very slightly above the tow planes altitude,
always watching the rope drop away, even with the "drag device".

BT

"W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.)." wrote in message
...
This sounds like bad news to me, it increases the risk that the rope may
foul the glider after release.

I recall that there was a fatality in New Zealand when the rope had a
funnel
close to the end, to stabilise it; it also caused the rope to ride high.
The glider was a Slingsby Dart, and after release the rope wrapped round a
tailplane.

Also, in the U.K. there was a fatality to a Bocian flown solo when the
rope
fouled the glider, I am not sure whether this was after release or due to
a
bow in the rope.

Anything which might cause the rope to get close to the glider after
release
should be avoided.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


"John Galloway" wrote in
message ...

I have a vague recollection that a while back someone
mentioned in passing that their club used a little
drougue chute near the glider end of the aerotow rope
to fly the rings higher during approach and landing.
Does that ring any bells? If so I would appreciate
some information - or did I just imagine it?

At Dunstable we experimented a few years ago with devices to make the rope
fly higher; useful as we are surrounded by fences, hedges and power wires.
We found that while these worked, they were not nearly tough enough to
withstand being dragged about on the surface of our airfield and were
rapidly destroyed after a few backtracks. As a result we abandoned the
experiment.

The real point about avoiding collisions between the glider and the rope
after release is that the glider MUST make a climbing turn immediately after
the pilot has ascertained that the rope has been released. As an instructor,
I find there is in increasing tendency for students not to do this, probably
because their mind-set is established by winch launching, where lowering the
nose after release is the normal action. When flying with an aerotow-cleared
student for the first time, I work on the worst-case assumption they will
push rather than pull after releasing the aerotow. I guard the stick as they
release and if they don't make an adequate climbing turn, I take control
immediately, make the climbing turn, and make a mental note to mention this
item to the student in the post-flight debrief. In this case I would insist
on a second aerotow in which I want to see the student demonstrate the
correct technique after release before I sign them off. This might seem
harsh but it could be a life-saver.

David Starer

"W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.)." wrote in message
...
This sounds like bad news to me, it increases the risk that the rope may
foul the glider after release.

I recall that there was a fatality in New Zealand when the rope had a
funnel
close to the end, to stabilise it; it also caused the rope to ride high.
The glider was a Slingsby Dart, and after release the rope wrapped round a
tailplane.

Also, in the U.K. there was a fatality to a Bocian flown solo when the
rope
fouled the glider, I am not sure whether this was after release or due to
a
bow in the rope.

Anything which might cause the rope to get close to the glider after
release
should be avoided.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


"John Galloway" wrote in
message ...

I have a vague recollection that a while back someone
mentioned in passing that their club used a little
drougue chute near the glider end of the aerotow rope
to fly the rings higher during approach and landing.
Does that ring any bells? If so I would appreciate
some information - or did I just imagine it?

BT,

What is a wiffle ball made of and what size is it and
how long do they last on the end of tow ropes?

Thanks,

John Galloway

At 04:18 08 December 2003, Btiz wrote:
Why would a rope foul a glider tail plane unless it
was a very slack line
and back released..

We use a 'drag' device, wiffle balls, to help the tow
rope 'fly higher' than
with the weight of the Tost ring better clear the approach
end fence, and to
keep the rope from 'whipping' and tying itself in knots.

Of course, I'm told, that the people in OZ fly 'low
tow', below the prop
wash, so on release.. I can see where the rope will
'ascend' and possible
smack the canopy if released with any slack.

I prefer to release at or very slightly above the tow
planes altitude,
always watching the rope drop away, even with the 'drag
device'.

BT

What is a wiffle ball made of and what size is it and
how long do they last on the end of tow ropes?

John Galloway


It's a little hollow plastic ball about the size of
an orange or softball which has a bunch of holes
through it to make it even less aerodynamic. Kids
buy them with a plastic bat and can hit the ball as hard
as they want and it only goes about 5 feet (that's
about 1.6 meters for you international chaps).

Buy a set for your kids, and when they get tired of
it, cut the balls in half and put them on the end of
the tow rope. The bat is useless for the tow
pilot, but I've seen instructors use them to help
improve student progress ;-P

They last I dunno, maybe hundreds of tows? I guess
it depends on cement vs. dirt runways...

John Galloway wrote in message ...
BT,

What is a wiffle ball made of and what size is it and
how long do they last on the end of tow ropes?

Thanks,

John Galloway

At 04:18 08 December 2003, Btiz wrote:
Why would a rope foul a glider tail plane unless it
was a very slack line
and back released..

We use a 'drag' device, wiffle balls, to help the tow
rope 'fly higher' than
with the weight of the Tost ring better clear the approach
end fence, and to
keep the rope from 'whipping' and tying itself in knots.

Of course, I'm told, that the people in OZ fly 'low
tow', below the prop
wash, so on release.. I can see where the rope will
'ascend' and possible
smack the canopy if released with any slack.

I prefer to release at or very slightly above the tow
planes altitude,
always watching the rope drop away, even with the 'drag
device'.

BT
hit the canopy
When one exercise a correct release in either high or low tow the rops will not

Mark,

Thanks. Sounds worthy of a trial.

John Galloway


At 21:24 08 December 2003, Mark James Boyd wrote:
What is a wiffle ball made of and what size is it and
how long do they last on the end of tow ropes?

John Galloway


It's a little hollow plastic ball about the size of

an orange or softball which has a bunch of holes
through it to make it even less aerodynamic. Kids
buy them with a plastic bat and can hit the ball as
hard
as they want and it only goes about 5 feet (that's
about 1.6 meters for you international chaps).

Buy a set for your kids, and when they get tired of
it, cut the balls in half and put them on the end of
the tow rope. The bat is useless for the tow
pilot, but I've seen instructors use them to help
improve student progress ;-P

They last I dunno, maybe hundreds of tows? I guess
it depends on cement vs. dirt runways...

I agree completely with David Starer about what pupils ought to do, and what
to do about it if they don't.

What I don't understand is why some instructors teach the pupil to pull the
release twice. If it does not release the first time, why should it
release the second? Invariably it does release the first time, but the
pupil delays starting the climbing turn until after the second pull.

The sequence I teach is:

a. Make sure it is safe (collision risk) to turn in the intended
direction.
b. Look ahead at the cable and pull the release.
c. As soon as the cable is seen to release start the climbing turn, and
look again to make sure it is safe to continue the turn.

It is important that the turn is not started with the rope still attached
(this has been known, tug pilots don't like it!).

It is also important that the turn is started as soon as the rope is free,
it is surprising how close the glider sometimes gets to the rope if the
pupil is slow to start the turn.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


"Giganews" wrote in message
...

At Dunstable we experimented a few years ago with devices to make the rope
fly higher; useful as we are surrounded by fences, hedges and power wires.
We found that while these worked, they were not nearly tough enough to
withstand being dragged about on the surface of our airfield and were
rapidly destroyed after a few backtracks. As a result we abandoned the
experiment.

The real point about avoiding collisions between the glider and the rope
after release is that the glider MUST make a climbing turn immediately
after the pilot has ascertained that the rope has been released. As an
instructor, I find there is in increasing tendency for students not to do
this, probably because their mind-set is established by winch launching,
where lowering the nose after release is the normal action. When flying
with an aerotow-cleared student for the first time, I work on the
worst-case assumption they will push rather than pull after releasing the
aerotow. I guard the stick as they release and if they don't make an
adequate climbing turn, I take control immediately, make the climbing
turn, and make a mental note to mention this item to the student in the
post-flight debrief. In this case I would insist on a second aerotow in
which I want to see the student demonstrate the correct technique after
release before I sign them off. This might seem harsh but it could be a
life-saver.

David Starer


"W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.)." wrote in message
...

This sounds like bad news to me, it increases the risk that the rope may
foul the glider after release.

I recall that there was a fatality in New Zealand when the rope had a
funnel close to the end, to stabilise it; it also caused the rope to
ride high. The glider was a Slingsby Dart, and after release the rope
wrapped round a tailplane.

Also, in the U.K. there was a fatality to a Bocian flown solo when the
rope fouled the glider, I am not sure whether this was after release or
due to a bow in the rope.

Anything which might cause the rope to get close to the glider after
release should be avoided.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


"John Galloway" wrote
in message ...

I have a vague recollection that a while back someone
mentioned in passing that their club used a little
drougue chute near the glider end of the aerotow rope
to fly the rings higher during approach and landing.
Does that ring any bells? If so I would appreciate
some information - or did I just imagine it?

I don't know the details of the New Zealand accident, I just know that it
did happen; but I am relying on memory without checking. It was a long
time ago, the glider was brand new and was being test flown after first
assembly.

One of the reasons that "high" tow (i.e. above the tug propwash) is always
used for launching in the U.K. is to ensure that the rope drops away. Any
device on the rope which might make it fly up is bad news.

"Low" tow (i.e. below the propwash) is used as a training exercise, and when
towing cross-country as distinct to launching. It is much more comfortable
when towing level and fast; but we always go to "high" tow to release.

At one time Lasham used a light type of rope with a breaking strain of 1,000
lbs. and no weak link, because they wanted to land close to the edge of the
field with the rope likely to drag through crops; this rope flew higher than
a heavier rope with a weak link on the end, but did not actually fly up.

Tost used to make a winch to fit on the tug to wind in the rope after
release, I have not checked to see if they still do and I have never seen
one.

Derek Piggott once told us that there was an operation in the USA where a
tug winch was used.

The vital thing with any winch system is that it easy for the tug pilot to
cut the rope loose without delay if there is a problem.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:_MSAb.13915$yf.10724@fed1read01...

Why would a rope foul a glider tail plane unless it was a very slack line
and back released..

We use a "drag" device, wiffle balls, to help the tow rope "fly higher"
than with the weight of the Tost ring better clear the approach end fence,
and to keep the rope from "whipping" and tying itself in knots.

Of course, I'm told, that the people in OZ fly "low tow", below the prop
wash, so on release.. I can see where the rope will "ascend" and possible
smack the canopy if released with any slack.

I prefer to release at or very slightly above the tow planes altitude,
always watching the rope drop away, even with the "drag device".

BT


"W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.)." wrote in message
...
This sounds like bad news to me, it increases the risk that the rope may
foul the glider after release.

I recall that there was a fatality in New Zealand when the rope had a
funnel close to the end, to stabilise it; it also caused the rope to
ride high. The glider was a Slingsby Dart, and after release the rope
wrapped round a tailplane.

Also, in the U.K. there was a fatality to a Bocian flown solo when the
rope fouled the glider, I am not sure whether this was after release or
due to a bow in the rope.

Anything which might cause the rope to get close to the glider after
release should be avoided.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


"John Galloway" wrote
in message ...

I have a vague recollection that a while back someone
mentioned in passing that their club used a little
drougue chute near the glider end of the aerotow rope
to fly the rings higher during approach and landing.
Does that ring any bells? If so I would appreciate
some information - or did I just imagine it?