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#21
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Just about as close to break even as you can get.
Depending on hours flown annually on the Blanik, it sounds like the dues pays the insurance and reserve funds. BT wrote in message oups.com... Our club operation - $400 initiation $40/month dues $12/hr Blanik L13 $6/1000' for the Pawnee tow We are about a break even operation. Mike ASW 15 |
#22
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BTIZ wrote:
4.40 per minute = $264 per hour Face it, that's what it costs to operate an airplane in Europe. We charter the same plane for 180 an hour, and brake more or less even with that. (I think we calculate our costs at 150 an hour, but I'm not sure. Of course, we're calculating the full cost of operation.) on an average of 4-5 tows per hour on a busy day, that's 264/5 = 52 per average tow... Wrong calculation. An average tow lasts about 5 to 7 minutes on our field with average weather. When we have to tow further away, it gets expensive. no wonder you're making money. Well, we're making money in our own pockets. Same discussion as above: Somehow we must pay for our modern fleet. (Two LS8s, two LS7s, three LS4s, two double seaters... with no hourly fees.) Your 180HP Husky burns just a tad less fuel than a 235HP IO540. But at approximately four times the price. Stefan |
#23
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In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft
tow from a commercial FBO. Often sledrides. Spring time is reasonable, you can do with lower tows for some local soaring. A tow to an area with lift for XC is about US$125 (6500 ft, 16nm out). An aero retrieve from that lift area is the same US$125, making it a $250 day if the circumstances are not at best or you return too late in the day. Club dues are US$100 a month, no rent/hourly charges. So, consider yourself blessed with your low rates. John. |
#24
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dumass wrote:
In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft tow from a commercial FBO. Often sledrides. Spring time is reasonable, you can do with lower tows for some local soaring. A tow to an area with lift for XC is about US$125 (6500 ft, 16nm out). An aero retrieve from that lift area is the same US$125, making it a $250 day if the circumstances are not at best or you return too late in the day. Sounds like a good place to own a sustainer motorglider, or even a self-launcher. An active pilot making 40 flights a year would avoid $4000 in tow fees, figuring on a $20 tow to launch a sustainer-equipped glider, and also avoid the aero retrieves. Are there any there? -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
#25
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In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft
tow from a commercial FBO. What airport do you fly gliders out of in the SF Bay Area? |
#26
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#27
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Eric-
Sorry but gotta call you on that analysis.... 1.) Does your analysis include increased insurance for the self-launcher? 2.) The price difference between comparable pure and motorized ain't peanuts....some of us only have so much money up front for a ship. 3.) However I do agree with your basic premise...the self-launchers that will launch themselves on a Colorado summer day are $100k+...so I will pay for tows At 23:00 05 April 2005, Eric Greenwell wrote: dumass wrote: In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft tow from a commercial FBO. Often sledrides. Spring time is reasonable, you can do with lower tows for some local soaring. A tow to an area with lift for XC is about US$125 (6500 ft, 16nm out). An aero retrieve from that lift area is the same US$125, making it a $250 day if the circumstances are not at best or you return too late in the day. Sounds like a good place to own a sustainer motorglider, or even a self-launcher. An active pilot making 40 flights a year would avoid $4000 in tow fees, figuring on a $20 tow to launch a sustainer-equipped glider, and also avoid the aero retrieves. Are there any there? -- Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
#28
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dumass wrote:
In California (San Francisco Bay Area) we pay about US$100 for a 5500 ft tow from a commercial FBO. Often sledrides. Spring time is reasonable, you can do with lower tows for some local soaring. A tow to an area with lift for XC is about US$125 (6500 ft, 16nm out). An aero retrieve from that lift area is the same US$125, making it a $250 day if the circumstances are not at best or you return too late in the day. And that may not include the soon-to-be-announced increases. :-( Jeremy |
#29
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Eric Greenwell wrote:
Sounds like a good place to own a sustainer motorglider, or even a self-launcher. An active pilot making 40 flights a year would avoid $4000 in tow fees, figuring on a $20 tow to launch a sustainer-equipped glider, and also avoid the aero retrieves. Are there any there? There are a 4-6 motorgliders based at the field depending on the season--unless I've forgotten a few. Jeremy |
#30
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Stewart Kissel wrote:
Sounds like a good place to own a sustainer motorglider, or even a self-launcher. An active pilot making 40 flights a year would avoid $4000 in tow fees, figuring on a $20 tow to launch a sustainer-equipped glider, and also avoid the aero retrieves. Are there any there? Eric- Sorry but gotta call you on that analysis.... 1.) Does your analysis include increased insurance for the self-launcher? It wasn't a cost analysis, just pointing out that the tow cost left a lot of room to afford a motorglider. Assuming you fly the same quality of glider you do now, but with a motor, your additional insurance cost would likely be less than $800. That's a guess based on the $1600/year I pay for liability and hull insurance on my ASH 26E. The sustainer would be even cheaper to insure, of course, though you'd be paying $20 or so for 1000' tows, which would come to $800 for the year. 2.) The price difference between comparable pure and motorized ain't peanuts....some of us only have so much money up front for a ship. True, but it does vary a lot: for the PIK 20 E, it's about $20,000; for the DG400 vs DG200, maybe $30,000; and the newer ASH 26 E, DG 800, etc, maybe $40,000? The least cost would be a sustainer, as the motor installations are much less expensive. With such expensive tows, I suspect a sustainer would be no more expensive, overall, than a similar unpowered glider, though I haven't played with the numbers recently. Even if it wasn't cheaper, it's self-retrieve capability might allow soaring experiences that an active XC pilot would gladly pay for. 3.) However I do agree with your basic premise...the self-launchers that will launch themselves on a Colorado summer day are $100k+...so I will pay for tows The DG 400 does fine in Colorado, and they aren't near that price yet. The Apis M is definitely less the $100K, has the same power/weight ratio, and should also launch well. Maybe the Silent would be suitable, but I didn't check into it. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
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