VFR position reporting

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in message
...

It indicates that he didn't use it not that the CFIs didn't teach it. From
the outcome of the flight I'd say there were probably several things the
CFIs taught him that he either forgot or ignored.

Actually, I've had a problem with the CFI side of the Kennedy equation since
the day of the accident .
I know the area of the crash very well having flown up there myself many
times .
I've always had an issue with the fact that Kennedy wasn't as aware as he
should have been about the dangers of horizon loss in the area under certain
weather conditions and at certain times of the day. I also wasn't at all
satisfied with his inability to avoid the loss of control situation that
apparently resulted in the loss of the airplane and its occupants both on
the planning end and during the operational end directly prior to the crash.
This accident seemed literally riddled with contributing causes as indeed is
the situation in many aircraft accidents.
Not that in my opinion it was the single contributing cause, but I'll always
have an unanswered question in my mind about the quality of Kennedy's flight
instruction during his training.
Dudley Henriques

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:17:20 -0800, Bob Gardner wrote:

They all work in the same building and get paid from the same pool of
money, but the last time I visited the Seattle AFSS there was one person
at the Flight Watch position whose sole responsibility it was to answer
queries about the weather on 122.0...s/he worked no other frequency. And
his scope did not have a flight plan screen, as did the other scopes in
the room.


That's informative to me (ie. I didn't know this {8^), but I still don't
know why the separation of the two services?

Thanks...
- Andrew

but it does indicate that the
CFIs he used did not teach the use of the Long Island Sound
reporting service.

I've never heard of it, and I fly here all the time. I know of such a
service in Hawaii, but not here. Tell me more.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jay, are you ready to admit defeat, and cut MX loose, yet?

I'm just wondering. I think you might be a pretty good barometer of the
others
in the group that are still answering his questions.

Well, Jim, I find MX much less aggravating then some of the regular
posters here. Even when he disagrees, at least he keeps a civil tongue
in his head, which is more than I can say for many of the "real" pilots
who grace this group with their presence.

I don't pretend to understand why some of you guys get so worked up
about his questions -- there's nothing wrong with asking about VFR
position reporting. I'll bet there are 400 pilot wannabee lurkers who
read his posts with relish, glad that he's got the balls to ask the
"stupid questions" that no one else will ask, for fear of getting
verbally castrated.

I see. You and many others don't mind his arguing, or his seemingly inability
to look up the simplest questions, or to read a book. That says nothing about
his probable diagnosable psychoses of a few different types, and thinking he is
actually traveling by simulator.

Oh well. Different strokes, and all that.

Myself, I don't understand your view of him, as much as you don't understand my
(and other's) annoyance.

Back to some serious semi-lurking. I just can't waste my time with responses to
him, from other people.
--
Jim in NC

Re JFK Jr's last flight: when you look at the prelim report you'll
notice he has had more dual time instruction than for example naval
pilots have total time when they're landing on carriers!

He was pretty well along on his instrument rating as well.

He was flying with a foot still not healed from a hang gliding
accident, and it seems fairly clear he turned off the auto pilot to
start down and pulled himself into a spiral. I think radar shows it was
less than a minute from 5500 feet to impact.

A book written about the event said his family didn't ever want to fly
with him



On Nov 21, 5:56 pm, "Dudley Henriques" wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in ...

It indicates that he didn't use it not that the CFIs didn't teach it. From
the outcome of the flight I'd say there were probably several things the
CFIs taught him that he either forgot or ignored.Actually, I've had a problem with the CFI side of the Kennedy equation since
the day of the accident .
I know the area of the crash very well having flown up there myself many
times .
I've always had an issue with the fact that Kennedy wasn't as aware as he
should have been about the dangers of horizon loss in the area under certain
weather conditions and at certain times of the day. I also wasn't at all
satisfied with his inability to avoid the loss of control situation that
apparently resulted in the loss of the airplane and its occupants both on
the planning end and during the operational end directly prior to the crash.
This accident seemed literally riddled with contributing causes as indeed is
the situation in many aircraft accidents.
Not that in my opinion it was the single contributing cause, but I'll always
have an unanswered question in my mind about the quality of Kennedy's flight
instruction during his training.
Dudley Henriques

Nobody uses the long island reporting service. You ask for and get
flight following, it's much more real-time than the LIRS which the FSS
provides.

Jim Macklin wrote:
The NTSB report states that JFK jr. had no contact with ATC
or radio after departing the local control.

He did not avail the services which were available. That
did not cause the accident, but it does indicate that the
CFIs he used did not teach the use of the Long Island Sound
reporting service.



"Steve Foley" wrote in message
news:JDG8h.5540$d42.2658@trndny07...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| ...
|
| I don't think (but I have no actual knowledge - haven't
even checked the
| NTSB site) that Jr used this. From what I recall, his
family reported the
| plane was overdue.
|
| Squawking didn't trigger S&R, but it helped locate the
wreckage.
|
| 2.
| If contact is lost for more than 15 minutes,
Search
| and Rescue will be alerted.
|
|

I've always believed that what nailed Kennedy was not his lack of
experience, which was ok at 310 hours, but his known problem with
multi-tasking. This coupled with spatial disorientation can be, and in my
opinion indeed was a killer.
I can only speculate on how deeply into his problem with cockpit
multi-tasking and overload his instructors at Flight Safety managed to go,
but I do understand he had these issues all through
his training.
Its very difficult for instructors when dealing in these areas. You
certainly can ascertain the problem exists with a student, and you can deal
with it, but in the end analysis, its extremely difficult if not impossible
for an instructor to predict how a student will react somewhere down the
line when suddenly faced with an actual multi-task overload.
I only have questions on this issue as pertains to the Kennedy accident, not
accusations. Its quite possible his instructors did all they could to solve
his issues, but this leaves me with the fact that regardless of the
instructor's role, I'm fairly well convinced that what killed Kennedy was
his poor preflight planning putting him in conditions and at a time of day
that he wasn't prepared to handle coupled with his on board reaction to an
actual spatial disorientation that overloaded him to the point that he
reacted contrary to his instrument training not shallowing the bank before
his pitch correction thus deepening his spiral.
Who knows actually what really happened? For all we know, the right front
seat pax might have had an object in their lap that interfered with his
effort to shallow the bank. No one will ever REALLY know. That's why we
always get the "probable cause".
Anyway, I for one will always have unanswered questions about the level the
instructor accepted somewhere along his learning curve from Kennedy as
acceptable performance concerning what the instructor absolutely had to know
was a multi-tasking overload issue.
Its just the way I approach the flight training issue I guess. Everybody in
the business has their own way of looking at these things.
Dudley Henriques

"Tony" wrote in message
oups.com...

Re JFK Jr's last flight: when you look at the prelim report you'll
notice he has had more dual time instruction than for example naval
pilots have total time when they're landing on carriers!

He was pretty well along on his instrument rating as well.

He was flying with a foot still not healed from a hang gliding
accident, and it seems fairly clear he turned off the auto pilot to
start down and pulled himself into a spiral. I think radar shows it was
less than a minute from 5500 feet to impact.

A book written about the event said his family didn't ever want to fly
with him



On Nov 21, 5:56 pm, "Dudley Henriques" wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in
...

It indicates that he didn't use it not that the CFIs didn't teach it.
From
the outcome of the flight I'd say there were probably several things
the
CFIs taught him that he either forgot or ignored.Actually, I've had a
problem with the CFI side of the Kennedy equation since
the day of the accident .
I know the area of the crash very well having flown up there myself many
times .
I've always had an issue with the fact that Kennedy wasn't as aware as he
should have been about the dangers of horizon loss in the area under
certain
weather conditions and at certain times of the day. I also wasn't at all
satisfied with his inability to avoid the loss of control situation that
apparently resulted in the loss of the airplane and its occupants both on
the planning end and during the operational end directly prior to the
crash.
This accident seemed literally riddled with contributing causes as indeed
is
the situation in many aircraft accidents.
Not that in my opinion it was the single contributing cause, but I'll
always
have an unanswered question in my mind about the quality of Kennedy's
flight
instruction during his training.
Dudley Henriques

http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap4/aim0401.html#4-1-20


"Jose" wrote in message
m...
| but it does indicate that the
| CFIs he used did not teach the use of the Long Island
Sound
| reporting service.
|
| I've never heard of it, and I fly here all the time. I
know of such a
| service in Hawaii, but not here. Tell me more.
|
| Jose
| --
| "There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing.
Unfortunately, nobody knows
| what they are." - (mike).
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

why does it need to be rigid? how much more rigid can you get?
This is me..
This is where I am..
This is where I am going..


what more do you need?
BT

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
BT writes:

AIM 5-1-4 g. With Examples

Found it, thank you. The examples aren't very highly codified;
perhaps there is no rigid format.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Robert Chambers wrote:
Nobody uses the long island reporting service. You ask for and get
flight following, it's much more real-time than the LIRS which the FSS
provides.

One note is that they don't always hear you when you take off from
Block Island. I left there one dark night to fly home via Montauk, and
the FSS didn't hear me until I was half-way across. If I did it
again, I'd circle to gain altitude before leaving the island and
crossing the water... for both radio and engine-glide range.

Kev