Flaps on take-off and landing

Mxsmanic wrote:
Thomas Borchert writes:


No. But who cares - you're not flying, you're simming.


The whole idea of simulation is to approach real life, whence the
name.


For landing, you don't want to accidentally touch the wrong switch
while in a hurry on the runway (e.g. the gear switch - happens often).
Your primary concern is to get off the runway. After that, stop and
complete the after landing checklist, which includes flaps.


Do aircraft commonly have mechanisms to prevent gear retraction when
the wheels are touching ground, or is it usually up to the pilot not
to do anything unwise?


Your stall speed is reduced by the flaps by maybe 10 or 20 knots. If
the wind is blowing enough for your stall speed to be a factor - don't
fly.


I was under the impression that full flaps is a normal configuration
for landing; is this not true?


My primary flight instructor had a great saying "Do whatever it takes".
If you are flying into a short field with minimal wind full flaps
would make sense. If you are flying into a long, high-speed runway
(like Dulles or something) a no flap landing can be used. If the wind
is really squirrly you might want partial flaps. Now, what flap setting
is "normal" full flaps. I flew a 172 with 40 degrees of flaps, so is
30 degrees "full flaps"? What if that's all your 172 has? The Navion
has more than 40 degrees, do I need all of that flap? It depends! (BTW
with the old engine take-off in the Navion was 0 flaps, with the new
engine it's half-flaps).

Margy

I have a great idea, why don't you get a few hours in a "real" airplane.

Margy Natalie writes:

My primary flight instructor had a great saying "Do whatever it takes".
If you are flying into a short field with minimal wind full flaps
would make sense. If you are flying into a long, high-speed runway
(like Dulles or something) a no flap landing can be used.

Is there a reason why you'd want to land with no flaps?

I have a great idea, why don't you get a few hours in a "real" airplane.

Too expensive and too time-consuming. And I seriously doubt that I
would learn much of anything useful in just a few hours. If I had
time and money, I'd much prefer to spend it in certified full-motion
simulators, which would give me essentially all the experience of real
flight with zero risk and maximum flexibility and enjoyment.

--
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Mxsmanic,

Too expensive and too time-consuming. And I seriously doubt that I
would learn much of anything useful in just a few hours. If I had
time and money, I'd much prefer to spend it in certified full-motion
simulators, which would give me essentially all the experience of real
flight with zero risk and maximum flexibility and enjoyment.


You have already been told numerous times here that you are wrong and it
is not really expensive compared to what you spend on your hobby. Your
allusions to risk, which you have made several times but never
substantiated are quite overblown. As clueless as you are about real
flying, you'd learn a ton in just one hour - if you wanted too. But I
guess you're simply not serious about your simming approaching anything
like reality.

Your problem (one of the many) seems to be that you think only flying
big jets is flying worth to be considered. You're wrong.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Mxsmanic wrote:
Margy Natalie writes:


My primary flight instructor had a great saying "Do whatever it takes".
If you are flying into a short field with minimal wind full flaps
would make sense. If you are flying into a long, high-speed runway
(like Dulles or something) a no flap landing can be used.


Is there a reason why you'd want to land with no flaps?

Fast approach speed. At Dulles I would take the plane over the numbers
at cruise speed. You have lots of room to slow down as it's 4000' to
the first taxiway. If you learn to do it it's not that hard. If it's
REALLY windy you might want to opt for a no flap landing.



I have a great idea, why don't you get a few hours in a "real" airplane.


Too expensive and too time-consuming. And I seriously doubt that I
would learn much of anything useful in just a few hours. If I had
time and money, I'd much prefer to spend it in certified full-motion
simulators, which would give me essentially all the experience of real
flight with zero risk and maximum flexibility and enjoyment.


Take at least an intro flight in a real airplane. I think the enjoyment
will really beat any sim.

Margy

And a Playboy magazine is safer than sex.



"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
| Margy Natalie writes:
|
| My primary flight instructor had a great saying "Do
whatever it takes".
| If you are flying into a short field with minimal wind
full flaps
| would make sense. If you are flying into a long,
high-speed runway
| (like Dulles or something) a no flap landing can be
used.
|
| Is there a reason why you'd want to land with no flaps?
|
| I have a great idea, why don't you get a few hours in a
"real" airplane.
|
| Too expensive and too time-consuming. And I seriously
doubt that I
| would learn much of anything useful in just a few hours.
If I had
| time and money, I'd much prefer to spend it in certified
full-motion
| simulators, which would give me essentially all the
experience of real
| flight with zero risk and maximum flexibility and
enjoyment.
|
| --
| Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Minus all those neat sustained G forces.

mike

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
I'd much prefer to spend it in certified full-motion
simulators, which would give me essentially all the experience of real
flight with zero risk and maximum flexibility and enjoyment.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Do aircraft commonly have mechanisms to prevent gear retraction when
the wheels are touching ground, or is it usually up to the pilot not
to do anything unwise?

Some do, but it's best not to rely on it. Getting a good bounce
on rollout can sometimes release the pressure on the switch enough to
get the gear to stop.

On the Navion there is NOTHING to stop this. If the handle is up and
the crakshaft is turning the gear is coming up. It's all hydraulic.
Even the starter motor is enough to get the hydraulic pump to start
the nose gear retracting. I have seen exactly one Navion with a
mechanical interlock that keeps you from moving the handle while the
airplane is on the squat switch.


I was under the impression that full flaps is a normal configuration
for landing; is this not true?

Then why would you you have them? The FAA believes that FULL FLAPS
should always be used for landings (not one that I believe in).

I'm not sure about the Navion, but many hydraulic retraction
systems have a valve that blocks fluid flow unless the strut
is compressed.



"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
| Mxsmanic wrote:
|
| Do aircraft commonly have mechanisms to prevent gear
retraction when
| the wheels are touching ground, or is it usually up to
the pilot not
| to do anything unwise?
|
| Some do, but it's best not to rely on it. Getting a good
bounce
| on rollout can sometimes release the pressure on the
switch enough to
| get the gear to stop.
|
| On the Navion there is NOTHING to stop this. If the
handle is up and
| the crakshaft is turning the gear is coming up. It's all
hydraulic.
| Even the starter motor is enough to get the hydraulic pump
to start
| the nose gear retracting. I have seen exactly one Navion
with a
| mechanical interlock that keeps you from moving the handle
while the
| airplane is on the squat switch.
|
|
| I was under the impression that full flaps is a normal
configuration
| for landing; is this not true?
|
| Then why would you you have them? The FAA believes that
FULL FLAPS
| should always be used for landings (not one that I believe
in).

Ron Natalie writes:

Then why would you you have them? The FAA believes that FULL FLAPS
should always be used for landings (not one that I believe in).

Hmm ... so in theory I'm always supposed to land with full flaps?

--
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"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Your stall speed is reduced by the flaps by maybe 10 or 20 knots. If
the wind is blowing enough for your stall speed to be a factor - don't
fly.

Maybe in *your* plane, but *my* plane only gets a 2-3 kt decrease in stall
speed... Not worth the trouble unless you need to drop into a really short
field with trees or a power line at the approach end of it...