NBC news stupidity

(B2431) wrote in message ...
From: "TaxSrv"
Date: 8/13/2004 8:52 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

"B2431" wrote:
...
How far were they prepared to go? If they had displayed the weapons
in flight
to prove they could do it it would be just as criminal, in my
opinion, as
telling a stewardess in flight you have a bomb even if you didn't.

The are federal criminal laws which apply to air carrier and what is a
weapon, and they apply to media doing undercover stunts. I know of no
criminal law which says you cannot have a utility knife on board a
charter aircraft.

This flight could even have been Part 91. Is it now OK for some
do-gooder to observe a passenger of ours who looks Middle Eastern and
has an apparent large knife and odd stuff to put in the aircraft, and
call the police? Because he appears to the citizen not to be known to
you.

If you say OK, they'll come out and ask a few questions and everything
will be cool. But what if they surround you and your friend with
drawn weapons?

I'm not defending what NBC did, nor a big fan of the ACLU, and the FBO
acted laudably. But unless there's a criminal law violated here, this
incident shouldn't sound all that good to us pilots.

Fred F.

From what I read I gather they were acting squirrely. If I had been there I
would have been a tad nervous. Under those circumstances I would have been
correct in feeling threatened. Bear in mind in most states you can rob a 7-11
with a toy gun and still get charged with armed robery since the victim would
have felt threatened.

Let's take this out of aviation for a moment. If you were at a stoplight and
some guy opened your passenger door and hopped in then produced a box cutter
and said "Hi, I'm from NBC and I just proved how easy it is to car jack" you
would still feel threatened. Now take this scenario and plug it in to the stunt
NBC pulled. Given the post 9/11 enhanced vigilence the FBO acted with properly.

I am no lawyer, but it would seem to me that if the victims felt threatened
then a threat had been conveyed which I believe IS a crime.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Yep. I have long maintained that we need a law allowing charges for
'felony stupidity'. This incident would certainly comply with that
definition.

Harry K

B2431 wrote:

From: Mark Hickey
Date: 8/13/2004 5:07 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

(B2431) wrote:


Let's take this out of aviation for a moment. If you were at a stoplight

and

some guy opened your passenger door and hopped in then produced a box cutter
and said "Hi, I'm from NBC and I just proved how easy it is to car jack" you
would still feel threatened.

I just had a mental picture of the driver saying "Hi, I'm from the NRA
and I just proved how easy it is for this here 9mm to blow a few nice
holes in a carjacker... sorry about the shirt and all..."

Mark Hickey


9mm? You heathen!! I carry a 45.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

The example was obviously a female NRA member. I also carry a .45 or a
..44 Mag. The .44 is a little unwieldly though in tight quarters, but I
do like the extra firepower and it is more accurate than my .45. I
imagine the muzzle blast in a cockpit would be truly impressive. You
wouldn't even have to hit the terrorist to put him out of commission.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
The example was obviously a female NRA member. I also carry a .45 or a
.44 Mag. The .44 is a little unwieldly though in tight quarters, but I
do like the extra firepower and it is more accurate than my .45. I
imagine the muzzle blast in a cockpit would be truly impressive. You
wouldn't even have to hit the terrorist to put him out of commission.


I had a Ruger .30 carbine revolver with a loose cylinder/barrel gap. The
crack of the report would kill a crow at thirty feet and the side blast from
the cylinder would blow the hats off the guys shooting at the stations to
your left and right.

Rich "The crow was old and had a heart condition" S.

From: Matt Whiting
Date: 8/13/2004 9:51 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

B2431 wrote:

From: Mark Hickey
Date: 8/13/2004 5:07 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

(B2431) wrote:


Let's take this out of aviation for a moment. If you were at a stoplight

and

some guy opened your passenger door and hopped in then produced a box
cutter
and said "Hi, I'm from NBC and I just proved how easy it is to car jack"
you
would still feel threatened.

I just had a mental picture of the driver saying "Hi, I'm from the NRA
and I just proved how easy it is for this here 9mm to blow a few nice
holes in a carjacker... sorry about the shirt and all..."

Mark Hickey


9mm? You heathen!! I carry a 45.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

The example was obviously a female NRA member. I also carry a .45 or a
.44 Mag. The .44 is a little unwieldly though in tight quarters, but I
do like the extra firepower and it is more accurate than my .45. I
imagine the muzzle blast in a cockpit would be truly impressive. You
wouldn't even have to hit the terrorist to put him out of commission.


Matt

I think it should be legal to fire 3 warning shots to the head.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Rich S. wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

The example was obviously a female NRA member. I also carry a .45 or a
.44 Mag. The .44 is a little unwieldly though in tight quarters, but I
do like the extra firepower and it is more accurate than my .45. I
imagine the muzzle blast in a cockpit would be truly impressive. You
wouldn't even have to hit the terrorist to put him out of commission.



I had a Ruger .30 carbine revolver with a loose cylinder/barrel gap. The
crack of the report would kill a crow at thirty feet and the side blast from
the cylinder would blow the hats off the guys shooting at the stations to
your left and right.

That's about the only way a .30 carbine can do any damage! :-)

Matt

B2431 wrote:

From: Matt Whiting
Date: 8/13/2004 9:51 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

B2431 wrote:


From: Mark Hickey
Date: 8/13/2004 5:07 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

(B2431) wrote:



Let's take this out of aviation for a moment. If you were at a stoplight

and


some guy opened your passenger door and hopped in then produced a box

cutter

and said "Hi, I'm from NBC and I just proved how easy it is to car jack"

you

would still feel threatened.

I just had a mental picture of the driver saying "Hi, I'm from the NRA
and I just proved how easy it is for this here 9mm to blow a few nice
holes in a carjacker... sorry about the shirt and all..."

Mark Hickey


9mm? You heathen!! I carry a 45.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

The example was obviously a female NRA member. I also carry a .45 or a
.44 Mag. The .44 is a little unwieldly though in tight quarters, but I
do like the extra firepower and it is more accurate than my .45. I
imagine the muzzle blast in a cockpit would be truly impressive. You
wouldn't even have to hit the terrorist to put him out of commission.


Matt


I think it should be legal to fire 3 warning shots to the head.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

It probably should be not only legal, but mandatory.

Matt

"TaxSrv" wrote in message
...
"Orval Fairbairn" wrote:
I hope that the judge throws the book at them!

I think it's implied they were not arrested. What law did they
violate?

If media goes undercover to a used car dealer to show how buyers can
get screwed, you'd probably agree with that. If they go undercover to
an FBO under circumstances which were obviously suspicious, what's the
difference? The targeted auto dealer may be known to be sleazy, but
if the FBO had agreed to the charter, what adjective do they deserve?

Why would I believe anything that NBC has to say about a car dealer? These
are the guys who tried to prove that Chevy trucks were dangerous by using
fireworks to cause the gas tanks to explode.

"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: Mark Hickey
Date: 8/13/2004 5:07 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

(B2431) wrote:

Let's take this out of aviation for a moment. If you were at a
stoplight
and
some guy opened your passenger door and hopped in then produced a box
cutter
and said "Hi, I'm from NBC and I just proved how easy it is to car jack"
you
would still feel threatened.

I just had a mental picture of the driver saying "Hi, I'm from the NRA
and I just proved how easy it is for this here 9mm to blow a few nice
holes in a carjacker... sorry about the shirt and all..."

Mark Hickey

9mm? You heathen!! I carry a 45.

Hey, I carry a 9mm and I aint no lady neither. A .45 is just too fat and
heavy. I keep looking at those Taurus Total Titanium guns, though.

"TaxSrv" wrote in message ...

If media goes undercover to a used car dealer to show how buyers can
get screwed, you'd probably agree with that. If they go undercover to
an FBO under circumstances which were obviously suspicious, what's the
difference? The targeted auto dealer may be known to be sleazy, but
if the FBO had agreed to the charter, what adjective do they deserve?

Fred F.

Didn't the FBO agree to the charter, which is after all one of their sources
of revenue, until they became suspicious of the passengers? Didn't the FBO
continue with the facad to hold the suspects there until the Police/FBI
arrived? What possible parallel can you draw between the FBO and a crooked
car dealer?

If the media engages in a legal activity, e.g. a customer with a hidden
camera to show a crooked car dealership, that is one thing. When then
engage in an illegal activity, e.g. armed terrorist suspects attempting
to bypass airport security, that is another. Illegal is illegal no matter
what the motive. When you factor in the news media's ratings quest, their
Geobel-esk "the truth is what WE make it", and apparent desire to paint GA
as no good and the root of all Al Caida evil, it is outright criminal. They
should receive the same harsh treatement that the college student recieved
who smuggled boxcutters on a plane to demonstrate lapse airport security.

Gary P.

"B2431" wrote:
I'm not defending what NBC did, nor a big fan of the ACLU, and the
FBO acted laudably. But unless there's a criminal law violated
here,
this incident shouldn't sound all that good to us pilots.

Fred F.

From what I read I gather they were acting squirrely. If I had been
there I would have been a tad nervous. Under those circumstances
I would have been correct in feeling threatened.
...
I am no lawyer, but it would seem to me that if the victims felt
threatened then a threat had been conveyed which I believe IS a
crime.

Sure, in our state is called aggravated menacing, a misdemeanor. If
you get into a shouting match with your neighbor, and he says he'd
like to kill you, you can call the police. Will they come out?
Maybe. Will they arrest him. No.

I doubt the FBO people felt really threatened. They surely had no
intention of flying these guys anywhere. The individuals made no
threatening statements nor exhibited inherently threatening behavior.
The "victims" had no knowledge of weapons in their luggage -- a knife
and the now infamous Stanley boxcutter. Maybe they had an actual gun.
So just act real polite and hope police arrive soon.

The police could have come and checked them out on the spot, called
NBC News to verify, then everybody go out and laugh over pitchers of
beer. We as a society can protect ourselves without going freakazoid.
To the point of even talking preemptive use of our guns.

Fred F.