Devin kicked out of junior worlds.

On Aug 28, 6:13*am, 77 wrote:
On Aug 27, 10:13*am, chris wrote:









On Aug 26, 9:29*am, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.

wrote:
'GB[_5_ Wrote:

;781455']On Aug 25, 7:16*am, "

wrote:-
On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
-
Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and
general
disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.-
-
Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from
the
contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
there.-
-
EX-

Good on the U.S. Team management.

GKemp-

Shame on you Mitch Hudson,

I was not aware that this discussion group could be used to embarrass,
slander, and humiliate another member. First of all Mitch you were not
there. I can only assume that you got your information from your
friend who had a major disagreement with Devin at the Junior Worlds..
The facts are unimportant for this discussion.
I am not one of Devin's drinking buddies, I am his 71 year old friend
and co-worker.
Mitch, the only thing you have accomplished with your post is hurting
Devin, his family and his friends.

Gabe Bourbeau
Minden NV

Gabe,

Respectfully, while this post may well embarrass and humiliate
Devin, it would only be slander if it was untrue. *We are all assuming a
lot, it would be good if there was some sort of official word from the
US team as to the reason for his dismissal. *If it is true, I would hope
that he would be embarrassed and humiliated, that might go a long way
towards improving his decision making abilities. *Drinking 'till 4 AM
the day of an event is not a smart thing to do.

As a 71 year old friend and co worker I hope you will try to give
him the benefit of your lifetime of experience. *Unfortunately it has
been my experience that youth fails to listen to the older, more
experienced crowd until it's too late. *We have had a number of
fatalities in the last few weeks in the soaring community from various
causes, most of which are to some degree associated with poor decision
making. *

What Mitch has done might be the best thing that could happen to
Devin. It appears to me that someone needs to get his attention. * Don't
be an enabler by dismissing his actions. An old Air Force Colonel gave
me a good kick in the ass once, I learned a lot from his guidance.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

As someone who was at the competition and one of the people who was up
at 4 in the morning I would like to chime in on the issue. *There were
many pilots who stayed up late during the competition from many
different nations. *When I saw Devin at the bar during the competition
he was acting responsibly and relatively low key. *I also spotted the
US team captain up late and partying on most nights. *I do not recall
seeing Devin up any later than 1am. *In my opinion and a number of
team captains I spoke to was that the punishment was unnecessary and
we feel not embarrassed for Devin but the US soaring scene. *I think
the original post is slanderous and full of hear say. *Anyone who has
met Devin will know that he is a responsible young man who does like
to have some fun but can take care of himself.

Chris Gough, Canada Team Capatain 2011 JWGC

I have known Devin since he came on the scene about 7 or 8 years ago.
I have been around him a lot. I have flown with him many times and
places. I have ALWAYS found him to be a responsible pilot and fine
young man. I was shocked when I read the first post. It just did not
sound like the Devin I know. Yes, he is a young man and likes to
party.However, the post made by Chirs Gough, Canadian Team Captain,
sounds more like it. Chris was there. As far as I know he is the only
one who was there among the dozen or so who have chimed in.

As I understand it, the original post came from someone who was not
there and who gave as his "outside source" a blog from a pilot or
pilots from the UK. I think it is very unfortunate that Devin's
reputation should be damaged by this kind of hearsay. This was a very
inappropriate thing to do.

I stand by Devin as a very fine young man....too bad he will have to
do a bit of rebuilding now but I am confident he will.

Jim Price

fifth. Michael Mitton
MM based in Minden

On Aug 28, 6:13*am, 77 wrote:
On Aug 27, 10:13*am, chris wrote:





On Aug 26, 9:29*am, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.

wrote:
'GB[_5_ Wrote:

;781455']On Aug 25, 7:16*am, "

wrote:-
On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
-
Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and
general
disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.-
-
Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from
the
contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
there.-
-
EX-

Good on the U.S. Team management.

GKemp-

Shame on you Mitch Hudson,

I was not aware that this discussion group could be used to embarrass,
slander, and humiliate another member. First of all Mitch you were not
there. I can only assume that you got your information from your
friend who had a major disagreement with Devin at the Junior Worlds..
The facts are unimportant for this discussion.
I am not one of Devin's drinking buddies, I am his 71 year old friend
and co-worker.
Mitch, the only thing you have accomplished with your post is hurting
Devin, his family and his friends.

Gabe Bourbeau
Minden NV

Gabe,

Respectfully, while this post may well embarrass and humiliate
Devin, it would only be slander if it was untrue. *We are all assuming a
lot, it would be good if there was some sort of official word from the
US team as to the reason for his dismissal. *If it is true, I would hope
that he would be embarrassed and humiliated, that might go a long way
towards improving his decision making abilities. *Drinking 'till 4 AM
the day of an event is not a smart thing to do.

As a 71 year old friend and co worker I hope you will try to give
him the benefit of your lifetime of experience. *Unfortunately it has
been my experience that youth fails to listen to the older, more
experienced crowd until it's too late. *We have had a number of
fatalities in the last few weeks in the soaring community from various
causes, most of which are to some degree associated with poor decision
making. *

What Mitch has done might be the best thing that could happen to
Devin. It appears to me that someone needs to get his attention. * Don't
be an enabler by dismissing his actions. An old Air Force Colonel gave
me a good kick in the ass once, I learned a lot from his guidance.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

As someone who was at the competition and one of the people who was up
at 4 in the morning I would like to chime in on the issue. *There were
many pilots who stayed up late during the competition from many
different nations. *When I saw Devin at the bar during the competition
he was acting responsibly and relatively low key. *I also spotted the
US team captain up late and partying on most nights. *I do not recall
seeing Devin up any later than 1am. *In my opinion and a number of
team captains I spoke to was that the punishment was unnecessary and
we feel not embarrassed for Devin but the US soaring scene. *I think
the original post is slanderous and full of hear say. *Anyone who has
met Devin will know that he is a responsible young man who does like
to have some fun but can take care of himself.

Chris Gough, Canada Team Capatain 2011 JWGC

I have known Devin since he came on the scene about 7 or 8 years ago.
I have been around him a lot. I have flown with him many times and
places. I have ALWAYS found him to be a responsible pilot and fine
young man. I was shocked when I read the first post. It just did not
sound like the Devin I know. Yes, he is a young man and likes to
party.However, the post made by Chirs Gough, Canadian Team Captain,
sounds more like it. Chris was there. As far as I know he is the only
one who was there among the dozen or so who have chimed in.

As I understand it, the original post came from someone who was not
there and who gave as his "outside source" a blog from a pilot or
pilots from the UK. I think it is very unfortunate that Devin's
reputation should be damaged by this kind of hearsay. This was a very
inappropriate thing to do.

I stand by Devin as a very fine young man....too bad he will have to
do a bit of rebuilding now but I am confident he will.

Jim Price- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ditto.
It is quiet obvious from reading the tone and the title of Mitch's
post that he was writing it with a lot of pleasure to embarrass
Devin. I am sure that there is another side to this story which we
haven't heard yet, and there should have been an official explanation
of what happened instead of someone's hearsay post.

Ramy

On Aug 29, 2:53*pm, Mike Mike Ground
wrote:
On Aug 28, 6:13*am, 77 wrote:









On Aug 27, 10:13*am, chris wrote:

On Aug 26, 9:29*am, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.

wrote:
'GB[_5_ Wrote:

;781455']On Aug 25, 7:16*am, "

wrote:-
On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
-
Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and
general
disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.-
-
Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from
the
contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
there.-
-
EX-

Good on the U.S. Team management.

GKemp-

Shame on you Mitch Hudson,

I was not aware that this discussion group could be used to embarrass,
slander, and humiliate another member. First of all Mitch you were not
there. I can only assume that you got your information from your
friend who had a major disagreement with Devin at the Junior Worlds.
The facts are unimportant for this discussion.
I am not one of Devin's drinking buddies, I am his 71 year old friend
and co-worker.
Mitch, the only thing you have accomplished with your post is hurting
Devin, his family and his friends.

Gabe Bourbeau
Minden NV

Gabe,

Respectfully, while this post may well embarrass and humiliate
Devin, it would only be slander if it was untrue. *We are all assuming a
lot, it would be good if there was some sort of official word from the
US team as to the reason for his dismissal. *If it is true, I would hope
that he would be embarrassed and humiliated, that might go a long way
towards improving his decision making abilities. *Drinking 'till 4 AM
the day of an event is not a smart thing to do.

As a 71 year old friend and co worker I hope you will try to give
him the benefit of your lifetime of experience. *Unfortunately it has
been my experience that youth fails to listen to the older, more
experienced crowd until it's too late. *We have had a number of
fatalities in the last few weeks in the soaring community from various
causes, most of which are to some degree associated with poor decision
making. *

What Mitch has done might be the best thing that could happen to
Devin. It appears to me that someone needs to get his attention. * Don't
be an enabler by dismissing his actions. An old Air Force Colonel gave
me a good kick in the ass once, I learned a lot from his guidance.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

As someone who was at the competition and one of the people who was up
at 4 in the morning I would like to chime in on the issue. *There were
many pilots who stayed up late during the competition from many
different nations. *When I saw Devin at the bar during the competition
he was acting responsibly and relatively low key. *I also spotted the
US team captain up late and partying on most nights. *I do not recall
seeing Devin up any later than 1am. *In my opinion and a number of
team captains I spoke to was that the punishment was unnecessary and
we feel not embarrassed for Devin but the US soaring scene. *I think
the original post is slanderous and full of hear say. *Anyone who has
met Devin will know that he is a responsible young man who does like
to have some fun but can take care of himself.

Chris Gough, Canada Team Capatain 2011 JWGC

I have known Devin since he came on the scene about 7 or 8 years ago.
I have been around him a lot. I have flown with him many times and
places. I have ALWAYS found him to be a responsible pilot and fine
young man. I was shocked when I read the first post. It just did not
sound like the Devin I know. Yes, he is a young man and likes to
party.However, the post made by Chirs Gough, Canadian Team Captain,
sounds more like it. Chris was there. As far as I know he is the only
one who was there among the dozen or so who have chimed in.

As I understand it, the original post came from someone who was not
there and who gave as his "outside source" a blog from a pilot or
pilots from the UK. I think it is very unfortunate that Devin's
reputation should be damaged by this kind of hearsay. This was a very
inappropriate thing to do.

I stand by Devin as a very fine young man....too bad he will have to
do a bit of rebuilding now but I am confident he will.

Jim Price

fifth. *Michael Mitton
MM based in Minden

Six

Regardless of the people involved, I question the character of any
member of a sponsored team that stays out until midnight, let alone 4
AM.
I do not care if he is drinking or not. A person sent to compete and
represent should have the self control and dicipline to train, study,
fly his best, rest and prepare to win the next day.
There really should not be much time for a party at this level of
competition. Hopefully we choose the best pilots to represent and
have the best chance for a USA win.
When I hear that any of the pilots are out past 2200 I wonder did we
send them to fly or party? Should we say " oh they are just kids.
Let them have a good time? I say not. Not on My Dime.

I do not buy this crap about being ok because he is a nice guy and has
friends and supporters. We need to have standards.

Maybe I am just way to "Old Fashion".

I wonder if I am alone or will get a second from any others who expect
more from our youth.

Rex

Representative: "representing or serving to represent...being an
example or type of a certain class or kind of thing...a person or
thing enough like the others in its class or thing to serve as an
example or type." Webster's New World Dictionary, second college
edition.

or as I have always told my children, "Character matters."

This was not a person representing himself or on holiday. This was a
person representing the United States of America. He was there on
other person's money.

However, we still have not heard from the team coach. We have not
heard from Devin. This lack of communication just stimulates the
Blogosphere. The USA Team coach has a responsibility here also.

Just my opinions.

Guy "DDS"

On 8/29/2011 7:53 PM, Rex Mayes wrote:
Regardless of the people involved, I question the character of any
member of a sponsored team that stays out until midnight, let alone 4
AM.
I do not care if he is drinking or not. A person sent to compete and
represent should have the self control and dicipline to train, study,
fly his best, rest and prepare to win the next day.
There really should not be much time for a party at this level of
competition. Hopefully we choose the best pilots to represent and
have the best chance for a USA win.
When I hear that any of the pilots are out past 2200 I wonder did we
send them to fly or party? Should we say " oh they are just kids.
Let them have a good time? I say not. Not on My Dime.

I do not buy this crap about being ok because he is a nice guy and has
friends and supporters. We need to have standards.

Maybe I am just way to "Old Fashion".

I wonder if I am alone or will get a second from any others who expect
more from our youth.

Rex


I don't know anything about the facts of this case. However, soaring
competition at the international level is a team effort. Every member
of the team is expected to do their job. They should try to have a good
time, but their good time should not interfere with their job. The
pilot's job is to maximize his soaring performance. If his partying
interferes with that, he is not doing his job. Worse, he is letting
down all the other team members (including financial contributors) who
have given their time and effort to support the team. If any member of
the team is not giving 100%, you should boot him from the team.

Representative: "representing or serving to represent...in the place
or on behalf of another or others...composed of persons duly
authorized, as by election, to act and speak for others." Webster's
New World Dictionary, Second College Edition.

Or as I have told my children repeatedly, "Character Matters."

He was there as part of the U.S.A. Team, not on personal holiday. He
was travelling on other person's money. When I go to fly at St.
Auban, it will be brought up.

He is not alone. The captain of the U.S.A. team should be speaking
up. Devin should be speaking up. This silence just feeds the
Blogosphere.

Just my opinions.

Guy "DDS"

On Aug 29, 7:53*pm, Rex Mayes wrote:
Regardless of the people involved, I question the character of any
member of a sponsored team that stays out until midnight, let alone 4
AM.
I do not care if he is drinking or not. *A person sent to compete and
represent should have the self control and dicipline to train, study,
fly his best, rest and prepare to win the next day.
There really should not be much time for a party at this level of
competition. *Hopefully we choose the best pilots to represent and
have the best chance for a USA win.
When I hear that any of the pilots are out past 2200 I wonder did we
send them to fly *or party? *Should we say " oh they are just kids.
Let them have a good time? *I say not. *Not on My Dime.

I do not buy this crap about being ok because he is a nice guy and has
friends and supporters. *We need to have standards.

Maybe I am just way to "Old Fashion".

I wonder if I am alone or will get a second from any others who expect
more from our youth.

Rex

Rex,

I agree with you completely.
Anyone who has contributed to the US and other nation,s teams should
be mad as hell.
I never condoned Devin action (witch none of us know the exact
details)
What I objected to, was the mean-spirited original post.
It appears that many competitors (including the US team captain) were
out partying most night. Again, that is hearsay.


Gabe Bourbeau
Minden NV

On Aug 30, 7:42*am, GB wrote:
On Aug 29, 7:53*pm, Rex Mayes wrote:









Regardless of the people involved, I question the character of any
member of a sponsored team that stays out until midnight, let alone 4
AM.
I do not care if he is drinking or not. *A person sent to compete and
represent should have the self control and dicipline to train, study,
fly his best, rest and prepare to win the next day.
There really should not be much time for a party at this level of
competition. *Hopefully we choose the best pilots to represent and
have the best chance for a USA win.
When I hear that any of the pilots are out past 2200 I wonder did we
send them to fly *or party? *Should we say " oh they are just kids.
Let them have a good time? *I say not. *Not on My Dime.

I do not buy this crap about being ok because he is a nice guy and has
friends and supporters. *We need to have standards.

Maybe I am just way to "Old Fashion".

I wonder if I am alone or will get a second from any others who expect
more from our youth.

Rex

Rex,

I agree with you completely.
Anyone who has contributed to the US *and other nation,s teams should
be mad as hell.
I never condoned Devin action (witch none of us know *the exact
details)
What I objected to, was the mean-spirited original post.
It appears that many competitors (including the US team captain) were
out partying most night. Again, that is hearsay.

Gabe Bourbeau
Minden NV

I think we need to tone this down. This whole matter is a sad tragedy
made worse because it has become a public scandal. These young people
need our help and support not presumptive criticism. No one, young or
old, is immune to mistakes - try to put yourself in their positions.
We need to deal with it in a mature way and rise above the rhetoric.

I do not know the facts and, from this thread, it doesn't appear
anyone posting to r.a.s. does either. I haven't had the pleasure of
meeting Devin but I do know the team captain and I respect Kathryn and
know her to have good judgement. I also know Mitch Hudson as a highly
respectable USAF officer.

That said, and speaking generally without any reference whatsoever to
these individuals or this incident, alcohol just doesn't mix with
flying. The FAR 91.17 8 Hr "bottle to throttle" rule is way too
lenient. The German Luftfahrt-Bundesamt (LBA) 12 hour rule is much
better. USN aeromedical research has even found degraded cognitive
performance 72 hours after consuming alcohol. The stuff makes you
dumb and dumb doesn't win soaring competitions.

Bill Daniels

Just my $0.02

On Aug 30, 12:47*pm, Bill D wrote:
On Aug 30, 7:42*am, GB wrote:





On Aug 29, 7:53*pm, Rex Mayes wrote:

Regardless of the people involved, I question the character of any
member of a sponsored team that stays out until midnight, let alone 4
AM.
I do not care if he is drinking or not. *A person sent to compete and
represent should have the self control and dicipline to train, study,
fly his best, rest and prepare to win the next day.
There really should not be much time for a party at this level of
competition. *Hopefully we choose the best pilots to represent and
have the best chance for a USA win.
When I hear that any of the pilots are out past 2200 I wonder did we
send them to fly *or party? *Should we say " oh they are just kids.
Let them have a good time? *I say not. *Not on My Dime.

I do not buy this crap about being ok because he is a nice guy and has
friends and supporters. *We need to have standards.

Maybe I am just way to "Old Fashion".

I wonder if I am alone or will get a second from any others who expect
more from our youth.

Rex

Rex,

I agree with you completely.
Anyone who has contributed to the US *and other nation,s teams should
be mad as hell.
I never condoned Devin action (witch none of us know *the exact
details)
What I objected to, was the mean-spirited original post.
It appears that many competitors (including the US team captain) were
out partying most night. Again, that is hearsay.

Gabe Bourbeau
Minden NV

I think we need to tone this down. *This whole matter is a sad tragedy
made worse because it has become a public scandal. *These young people
need our help and support not presumptive criticism. *No one, young or
old, is immune to mistakes - try to put yourself in their positions.
We need to deal with it in a mature way and rise above the rhetoric.

I do not know the facts and, from this thread, it doesn't appear
anyone posting to r.a.s. does either. *I haven't had the pleasure of
meeting Devin but I do know the team captain and I respect Kathryn and
know her to have good judgement. *I also know Mitch Hudson as a highly
respectable USAF officer.

That said, and speaking generally without any reference whatsoever to
these individuals or this incident, alcohol just doesn't mix with
flying. *The FAR 91.17 8 Hr "bottle to throttle" rule is way too
lenient. * The German Luftfahrt-Bundesamt (LBA) 12 hour rule is much
better. *USN aeromedical research has even found degraded cognitive
performance 72 hours after consuming alcohol. *The stuff makes you
dumb and dumb doesn't win soaring competitions.

Bill Daniels

Just my $0.02- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Make that $2.00- well said.
I do know Devin, having coached him when he started racing.
I'm saddened by what we hear has happened.
I'm proud of the positive accomplishments he had at the WGC.
I will support him in the future as I trust he will learn from this
experience.
UH