Devin kicked out of junior worlds.

Unbelievable, It could only happen in............

The response to this has truly amazed me.

You have a proportion of people who think that someone who parties to the
early hours and then get into an aeroplane as a pilot is hard done by when
he is blown out.
You have a proportion of people who attack the person who posted the
information, fairly standard reaction to whistleblowers so no surprise
there I suppose.
Bottom line, the team management took the very serious step of preventing
him flying on the last day, one assumes they were in the best position to
know the facts.
Alcohol and flying do not mix and frankly I have absolutely no sympathy
with anyone who tries it.
Get real people, the messenger is not the one who needs shooting and while
people show an ambivalent attitude to those who do drink and fly the
practice will never be eradicated.

I once left the office after work and went to the bar with a co-
worker. We sat through happy hour, 5pm-7pm, and had exactly 2 drinks.
We then went to his house and messed around with his computers and
electronic gadgets and played a couple of games of pool in his rec-
room while enjoying a cigar. Those are the facts.

Now...the way my EX told the story...I was out drinking with Jason
until 2am again. Running all over town with "God-knows-who" doing "God-
knows-what" and coming home smelling like an ashtray.

Just because she woke up at 2am and looked at the clock (after I had
already been home and in bed for more than 2 hours) does not mean I
was out drinking until 2am.

When she told her friends this story I was not there to clear up the
details. Was that fair of her? How did her friends perceive me based
on that information without even knowing me?

THAT the information was given, I do not see as a problem. HOW the
information was given, with opinions stated as facts, details
sensationalized (such as "being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying
days")...that I wag my finger at.

Was he drinking at 4am? Did someone see him take a shot and note the
time at 4am? Was it HIS flying day or just "on flying days" in general
(days that he may not even be scheduled to fly)? The verbiage is not
clear. Did he fly within 8 hours of drinking or have a blood alcohol
level above legal limit (0.04%)?

Assuming all this is fact...Pays tab at 4am and flies at noon. If one
is fit to fly and within all legal limits. Does that not meet the
requirements (even if not recommended for comfort reasons)?

That being said. Here is my PERSONAL policy.
I am an American glider pilot and I NEVER drink even the day before I
fly...as a rule. I know that is far more than required but that is my
personal limit. But I have been known to sit with friends while they
drink and have a Cranberry Tonic. Not a drop of alcohol in it. But to
an observer... especially a "coaching staff who is already upset with
my cocky attitude".

Food for thought...

Fox

"This whole matter is a sad tragedy..."

No it's not. Nobody got hurt, or died - perhaps because someone took
preemptive action. Embarrassment - yes. Tragedy - no.



At 17:37 30 August 2011, wrote:
On Aug 30, 12:47=A0pm, Bill D wrote:
On Aug 30, 7:42=A0am, GB wrote:





On Aug 29, 7:53=A0pm, Rex Mayes wrote:

Regardless of the people involved, I question the character of any
member of a sponsored team that stays out until midnight, let alone
4
AM.
I do not care if he is drinking or not. =A0A person sent to compete
a=
nd
represent should have the self control and dicipline to train,
study,
fly his best, rest and prepare to win the next day.
There really should not be much time for a party at this level of
competition. =A0Hopefully we choose the best pilots to represent
and
have the best chance for a USA win.
When I hear that any of the pilots are out past 2200 I wonder did
we
send them to fly =A0or party? =A0Should we say " oh they are just
kid=
s.
Let them have a good time? =A0I say not. =A0Not on My Dime.

I do not buy this crap about being ok because he is a nice guy and
ha=
s
friends and supporters. =A0We need to have standards.

Maybe I am just way to "Old Fashion".

I wonder if I am alone or will get a second from any others who
expec=
t
more from our youth.

Rex

Rex,

I agree with you completely.
Anyone who has contributed to the US =A0and other nation,s teams
should
be mad as hell.
I never condoned Devin action (witch none of us know =A0the exact
details)
What I objected to, was the mean-spirited original post.
It appears that many competitors (including the US team captain) were
out partying most night. Again, that is hearsay.

Gabe Bourbeau
Minden NV

I think we need to tone this down. =A0This whole matter is a sad
tragedy
made worse because it has become a public scandal. =A0These young
people
need our help and support not presumptive criticism. =A0No one, young
or
old, is immune to mistakes - try to put yourself in their positions.
We need to deal with it in a mature way and rise above the rhetoric.

I do not know the facts and, from this thread, it doesn't appear
anyone posting to r.a.s. does either. =A0I haven't had the pleasure of
meeting Devin but I do know the team captain and I respect Kathryn and
know her to have good judgement. =A0I also know Mitch Hudson as a
highly
respectable USAF officer.

That said, and speaking generally without any reference whatsoever to
these individuals or this incident, alcohol just doesn't mix with
flying. =A0The FAR 91.17 8 Hr "bottle to throttle" rule is way too
lenient. =A0 The German Luftfahrt-Bundesamt (LBA) 12 hour rule is much
better. =A0USN aeromedical research has even found degraded cognitive
performance 72 hours after consuming alcohol. =A0The stuff makes you
dumb and dumb doesn't win soaring competitions.

Bill Daniels

Just my $0.02- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Make that $2.00- well said.
I do know Devin, having coached him when he started racing.
I'm saddened by what we hear has happened.
I'm proud of the positive accomplishments he had at the WGC.
I will support him in the future as I trust he will learn from this
experience.
UH

On Aug 30, 2:39*pm, Don Johnstone wrote:
Unbelievable, It could only happen in............

The response to this has truly amazed me.

You have a proportion of people who think that someone who parties to the
early hours and then get into an aeroplane as a pilot is hard done by when
he is blown out.
You have a proportion of people who attack the person who posted the
information, fairly standard reaction to whistleblowers so no surprise
there I suppose.
Bottom line, the team management took the very serious step of preventing
him flying on the last day, one assumes they were in the best position to
know the facts.
Alcohol and flying do not mix and frankly I have absolutely no sympathy
with anyone who tries it.
Get real people, the messenger is not the one who needs shooting and while
people show an ambivalent attitude to those who do drink and fly the
practice will never be eradicated.

"preventing him flying on the last day" and "Kicked out of Junior
worlds" is not the same thing!
Perhaps you know more than we do, and this is the main problem, no
official word of what happened so far as far as I know.
And as long as there is no official word, it is all a hearsay and he
should have not been criticized in public forum.

Ramy

Ramy,
That is what we are all waiting for...the official word.
I am just as disappointed by the lack of official word as I am with
the situation.
Guy "DDS"

On Aug 30, 4:26*pm, guy wrote:
Ramy,
That is what we are all waiting for...the official word.
I am just as disappointed by the lack of official word as I am with
the situation.
Guy "DDS"

I see this trend with SSA all the time. Be it accidents, contest
issues, OLC issues etc. No official word. Makes me wonder if anyone
there is following this forum, or they believe that soaring magazine
should be the only way to communicate.

Ramy

I see this trend with SSA all the time. Be it accidents, contest
issues, OLC issues etc. No official word. Makes me wonder if anyone
there is following this forum, or they believe that soaring magazine
should be the only way to communicate.

Ramy

Statement is up on the SSA Homepage:

http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=67...w=blog&id=2689

On Aug 24, 8:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and general
disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.

Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from the
contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
there.

EX

I have watched this RAS thread regarding Devin from the beginning.
There has been a significant effort in the background by the US Team
Committee (USTC) and there is still work to be done. We believed that
until now it was premature to comment publicly. The whole incident
has been quite regrettable -- both the actual incident at the JWGC and
then the posting on RAS. An official statement has now been provided
on the SSA US Team site he

http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=67...w=blog&id=2689

It has been clear to me from the postings that everyone is concerned.
People have resonated about many different aspects of this ... Should
it have been posted? Is the account true? Was the treatment fair?
Why hasn't the USTC commented? and, so on. Most everyone does seem to
agree that the reported conduct was neither appropriate for a US Team
member nor in any way acceptable for safe, competitive (or even
recreational) flying.

Bill Elliott, Chairman
US Team Committee

Thank you, Bill.
I can appreciate that this was a tough call.
Guy "DDS"

On Aug 24, 9:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and general
disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.

Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from the
contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
there.

EX