Sean Tucker Oracle Airshow

Don't really know what kind of music he expected to hear either Dudley,...I
can see it now The United States Air Force Thunderbirds performing to
Britney Spears!!!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Chris Colohan" wrote in message
...

The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".)

You obviously know little about the Thunderbirds my friend :-)

Dudley Henriques

"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Chris Colohan" wrote in message
...

The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".)

You obviously know little about the Thunderbirds my friend :-)

Dudley,

Doubtful he knows anything about flying other than what he's seen in movies.

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
Don't really know what kind of music he expected to hear either
Dudley,...I can see it now The United States Air Force Thunderbirds
performing to Britney Spears!!!

I don't know about the Thunderbirds, but there was a guy in the base ops
men's room at Nellis one afternoon with a magazine with some pictures of
Spears in it, and from what we were hearing outside the stall (and laughing
like hell while we were in there) ,he was "performing" really well!!! :-)
DH

"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net writes:

"Chris Colohan" wrote in message
...

The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".)

You obviously know little about the Thunderbirds my friend :-)

That is true. All I know is what I saw in their show. Sadly, their
show aimed purely to entertain, and not to teach me anything.

I am sure that their pilots are extremely skilled. The show was
impressive. What put me off was the musical soundtrack (which really
didn't add much to the show), and the announcer repeatedly pronouncing
that "the Thunderbird pilots are not especially skilled for the Air
Force, what they are doing today is merely doing what every Air Force
pilot is asked to do during their training."

I would have been entertained a lot more if they perhaps told us more
about what they were doing, and relayed the cockpit radios through the
sound system. I wanted to learn about the planes, the pilots flying
them, and what they were doing -- not about how happy the announcer
was to be talking to us today, and what theme song was associated with
each pass!

Sure, I understand that this is a recruiting show. But do you really
expect me to believe that the Air Force picks their _average_ pilots
for their recruiting show team? (Perhaps they do, and save their best
pilots for the important jobs overseas...)

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

In article k.net,
Dudley Henriques dhenriques@noware .net wrote:

"Chris Colohan" wrote in message
...

The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".)

You obviously know little about the Thunderbirds my friend :-)

To me, the Thunderbirds and the Blue Angels fly an incredible and
amazing routine that is positively boring.

Standard Thunderbirds/Blue Angels routine:

Diamond takes off, disappears into next county.
Solos take off, do a 'dirty roll', disappear into next county.
Diamond does a fly by and disappears into the next county.
Solos show 'tactical surprise' by sneaking up behind the crowd and
giving everyone hearing loss, and then disappear into
the the next county.
Diamond comes by and does a four point roll, disappears into next county.
Solos do an opposing pass, disappear into next county.
etc.

They are great pilots, and what they do is hard, but unfortunately,
it is also never changes, so once you've seen either team, you can
head to the car and watch the show as you beat the traffic out of the
airshow.

The Snowbirds are a much more interesting jet team. Their jets
are slower, so they have to come up with more things to do then
just turning jet fuel into noise. With a nine plane formation,
they can come up with some interesting things, like a Canadian
goose.

The late Ameila Reid had a routine in a Cessna 150 that got to
maybe 500ft in altitude and used an area around 2500ft across.
Not high speed or high horse power, but it was a great routine
since it was right in front of you the entire time.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

"Chris Colohan" wrote in message
.. .
"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net writes:

"Chris Colohan" wrote in message
...

The Thunderbird show seems to emphasize "look at how cool our planes
are", and not "look at how skilled our pilots are".)

You obviously know little about the Thunderbirds my friend :-)

That is true. All I know is what I saw in their show. Sadly, their
show aimed purely to entertain, and not to teach me anything.

I am sure that their pilots are extremely skilled. The show was
impressive. What put me off was the musical soundtrack (which really
didn't add much to the show), and the announcer repeatedly pronouncing
that "the Thunderbird pilots are not especially skilled for the Air
Force, what they are doing today is merely doing what every Air Force
pilot is asked to do during their training."

I would have been entertained a lot more if they perhaps told us more
about what they were doing, and relayed the cockpit radios through the
sound system. I wanted to learn about the planes, the pilots flying
them, and what they were doing -- not about how happy the announcer
was to be talking to us today, and what theme song was associated with
each pass!

Sure, I understand that this is a recruiting show. But do you really
expect me to believe that the Air Force picks their _average_ pilots
for their recruiting show team? (Perhaps they do, and save their best
pilots for the important jobs overseas...)

It's true the format for the demonstration has been changed to reflect
current market trends for the venue. Actually, the Thunderbird show is a
living thing that is discussed and adjusted as conditions dictate.
As for the pilots; the announcer was correct. The pilots picked for the
Thunderbirds are taken directly from the pilot inventory of the Air Force.
The ones chosen for consideration are asked to travel with the team as
"selectee candidates". If chosen through this selection process, the
selectee is broken into the Thunderbird regimen very slowly.
It goes without saying that there are indeed requirements from a pilot that
are unique to the Thunderbird mission, but most of these are simply a
refining of abilities already in place and honed to execution within a
closer tolerance.
Basically, the ability to fly with the Thunderbirds is inherent in any
trained fighter pilot with the min quals required by the team. The narrator
was right in stating this to the crowd as he always does.
I agree with you about the music. I don't like it for several reasons mostly
involving the noise level attainable during the performance by the F16 both
in and out of burner and this interface with the crowd.
I have known several airshow demonstration pilots who used music to great
effect however; Scotty McCray coming immediately to mind as a perfect
example.
The mission statement for the Thunderbirds is a complex one, and catering to
known crowd preferences must be considered, The current mission profile for
the team reflects this marketing and as far as I know, will be the team's
mission format for the foreseeable future.
Dudley Henriques

It sounds like he had more fun than Chris at the airshow then!!!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in message
nk.net...

"W P Dixon" wrote in message
...
Don't really know what kind of music he expected to hear either
Dudley,...I can see it now The United States Air Force Thunderbirds
performing to Britney Spears!!!

I don't know about the Thunderbirds, but there was a guy in the base ops
men's room at Nellis one afternoon with a magazine with some pictures of
Spears in it, and from what we were hearing outside the stall (and
laughing like hell while we were in there) ,he was "performing" really
well!!! :-)
DH

"John Clear" wrote in message
...

The Snowbirds are a much more interesting jet team. Their jets
are slower, so they have to come up with more things to do then
just turning jet fuel into noise. With a nine plane formation,
they can come up with some interesting things, like a Canadian
goose.

I agree with you strangely enough about the Snows. I did an aerobatic eval
as a guest of the team flying their #10 Tutor at the Reading Show in the US
once and got to spend a lot of time with them. Their mission profile is
different from ours in the states and they have much more latitude in the
"crowd pleasing" department.
Their choice of maneuvers reflect this and is directly attributable to their
founder, Col O. B. Phillip, who laid out the way the team would perform.
I like the Canadian approach.
It was decided long ago that the main thrust of both the Thunderbird and
Blue Angel demonstrations would reflect tactical maneuvering and not the
showmanship type demonstration followed by the Snows. What you are seeing
today in our team's demonstration format reflects about as far into the
showmanship end of things as the military has been willing to go.......so
far anyway :-)))))
Dudley Henriques

The most entertaining in my book was Duane Cole in his clipped wing
T-craft. His maneuvers never involved a violent loss-of-control like
a snap roll etc. He was old and had glasses etc. His act was the
ultimate expression of the possible. We didn't have to listen to any
music either........

Hoover is my favorite. An "ultimate expression of the possible" is a
good way of describing it.

nrp wrote:
The most entertaining in my book was Duane Cole in his clipped wing
T-craft. His maneuvers never involved a violent loss-of-control like
a snap roll etc. He was old and had glasses etc. His act was the
ultimate expression of the possible. We didn't have to listen to any
music either........