A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Piloting
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Triangle shaped ice/frost on the wing - anyone seen this?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 6th 05, 03:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Triangle shaped ice/frost on the wing - anyone seen this?

Yesterday, I was flying along the tops of a broken layer and picked up
a thin layer of frost/ice on the wings with a thin triangle-shaped
pattern to the frost. This was a new one to me.

Conditions:
Plane: Cherokee 180
Altimeter 30.05
Broken layer @ 4000MSL (~3000AGL)
OAT = -5degF
Clear above the 040 BKN layer
Time was 10am, which put the sun almost directly behind the plane.

The leading edge of the wing was clear (free of frost) from the
leading edge to approximately 8 inches back (chordwise).

At the 8-inch chord mark, several frost outlines in a triangle shape
were present. The frost outline started as a point, and tapered back
evenly on either side, slowly 'enlarging' the frost pattern so that it
looked like a triangle pointed towards the leading edge. There were
several of these patterns on the wing, one every few feet (spanwise).
The frost patterns were not aligned with the rivets.

The frost triangles were about 1-2 feet long and 6 inches wide.

The OAT gauge/windshield did not accumulate any frost/ice.

Explanations? Similar occurrences?

-Nathan

  #2  
Old December 6th 05, 04:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Triangle shaped ice/frost on the wing - anyone seen this?

It is probably due to structure on your airplane being colder than the air.
The triangles are probably reinforcements or doublers under the skin. I get
this a lot on the MU-2 after landing when the fuel is at -40C and frost
forms on the underside of the wing where the fuel contacts the skin.

Mike
MU-2


"Nathan Young" wrote in message
news
Yesterday, I was flying along the tops of a broken layer and picked up
a thin layer of frost/ice on the wings with a thin triangle-shaped
pattern to the frost. This was a new one to me.

Conditions:
Plane: Cherokee 180
Altimeter 30.05
Broken layer @ 4000MSL (~3000AGL)
OAT = -5degF
Clear above the 040 BKN layer
Time was 10am, which put the sun almost directly behind the plane.

The leading edge of the wing was clear (free of frost) from the
leading edge to approximately 8 inches back (chordwise).

At the 8-inch chord mark, several frost outlines in a triangle shape
were present. The frost outline started as a point, and tapered back
evenly on either side, slowly 'enlarging' the frost pattern so that it
looked like a triangle pointed towards the leading edge. There were
several of these patterns on the wing, one every few feet (spanwise).
The frost patterns were not aligned with the rivets.

The frost triangles were about 1-2 feet long and 6 inches wide.

The OAT gauge/windshield did not accumulate any frost/ice.

Explanations? Similar occurrences?

-Nathan



  #3  
Old December 6th 05, 10:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Triangle shaped ice/frost on the wing - anyone seen this?

On 2005-12-06, Mike Rapoport wrote:
this a lot on the MU-2 after landing when the fuel is at -40C and frost
forms on the underside of the wing where the fuel contacts the skin.


What, Prist can't fix that?! ;-)

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/
  #4  
Old December 7th 05, 01:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Triangle shaped ice/frost on the wing - anyone seen this?

An advertisement for Sci-Fi Channel's new mini-series?

  #5  
Old December 7th 05, 02:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Triangle shaped ice/frost on the wing - anyone seen this?

On 07 Dec 2005 00:36:05 GMT, Blanche wrote:

An advertisement for Sci-Fi Channel's new mini-series?


Well, this did happen in the Minneapolis area, so perhaps it had
something to do with the light pillars mentioned a day ago. :-)

  #6  
Old December 7th 05, 06:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Triangle shaped ice/frost on the wing - anyone seen this?

In article ,
Nathan Young wrote:

On 07 Dec 2005 00:36:05 GMT, Blanche wrote:

An advertisement for Sci-Fi Channel's new mini-series?


Well, this did happen in the Minneapolis area, so perhaps it had
something to do with the light pillars mentioned a day ago. :-)


I could throw in some more than usually uninformed speculation (even for
this group . . . ) about a random dot of frost forming, causing the
airflow to spread out laterally just a bit; gases cool when they expand
(happens in nozzles and many types of refrigerators); result is more
frost forming in the region just behind the dot; and the
forward-pointing triangle grows toward the rear of the plane.

Fits the available data presented thus far, and stranger things happen
in gas and liquid flows all the time -- but I have no idea if anything
like this is really happening here.
  #7  
Old December 7th 05, 06:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Triangle shaped ice/frost on the wing - anyone seen this?

"AES" wrote in message
...
I could throw in some more than usually uninformed speculation (even for
this group . . . ) about a random dot of frost forming, causing the
airflow to spread out laterally just a bit [...]


That was the theory I came up with too. That should be enough to cause you
concern for whether you're actually correct.

(I didn't post it, because it seemed too outlandish, even for me ).


  #8  
Old December 7th 05, 10:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Triangle shaped ice/frost on the wing - anyone seen this?


"AES" wrote in message ...
In article ,
Nathan Young wrote:

On 07 Dec 2005 00:36:05 GMT, Blanche wrote:

An advertisement for Sci-Fi Channel's new mini-series?


Well, this did happen in the Minneapolis area, so perhaps it had
something to do with the light pillars mentioned a day ago. :-)


I could throw in some more than usually uninformed speculation (even for
this group . . . ) about a random dot of frost forming, causing the
airflow to spread out laterally just a bit; gases cool when they expand
(happens in nozzles and many types of refrigerators); result is more
frost forming in the region just behind the dot; and the
forward-pointing triangle grows toward the rear of the plane.

Fits the available data presented thus far, and stranger things happen
in gas and liquid flows all the time -- but I have no idea if anything
like this is really happening here.


Yes, maybe that is the area where the boundary layer was breaking from laminar flow to turbulent flow. It may be a new
way to figure out where to place the vortex generators...


  #9  
Old December 7th 05, 11:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Triangle shaped ice/frost on the wing - anyone seen this?

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:52:16 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

It is probably due to structure on your airplane being colder than the air.
The triangles are probably reinforcements or doublers under the skin.


I will have to ask my A&P. I am fairly certain that on a Cherokee,
the inner wing is much simpler than that... Ie ribs with the outer
wing skin riveted to them.
  #10  
Old December 7th 05, 11:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Triangle shaped ice/frost on the wing - anyone seen this?

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:16:17 -0800, AES wrote:

In article ,
Nathan Young wrote:

On 07 Dec 2005 00:36:05 GMT, Blanche wrote:

An advertisement for Sci-Fi Channel's new mini-series?


Well, this did happen in the Minneapolis area, so perhaps it had
something to do with the light pillars mentioned a day ago. :-)


I could throw in some more than usually uninformed speculation (even for
this group . . . ) about a random dot of frost forming, causing the
airflow to spread out laterally just a bit; gases cool when they expand
(happens in nozzles and many types of refrigerators); result is more
frost forming in the region just behind the dot; and the
forward-pointing triangle grows toward the rear of the plane.

Fits the available data presented thus far, and stranger things happen
in gas and liquid flows all the time -- but I have no idea if anything
like this is really happening here.


This was my best guess as well. I wish had my digital camera with me
- would have been a good one to capture.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
terminology questions: turtledeck? cantilever wing? Ric Home Built 2 September 13th 05 09:39 PM
Nearly had my life terminated today Michelle P Piloting 11 September 3rd 05 02:37 AM
Grob G102 Setup BDS Soaring 11 August 30th 05 03:42 PM
Props and Wing Warping... was soaring vs. flaping Wright1902Glider Home Built 0 September 29th 03 03:40 PM
An Affordable Homebrue 60 in DS machine Grant Soaring 0 August 8th 03 03:52 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.