USA - Private Pilot glider tow compensation

On Nov 13, 7:54*am, Andy wrote:

Not sure of the point of your reply. *You do not contest the
conclusion that FAA regards earning flight time as "compensation" and
that was the OP's question.

The question you answer is whether that compensation is currently
allowed for a private rated tow pilot, and clearly it is.

Andy

The OP didn't ask a question. My response was a feeble response
attempting to clarify his observation.

On Nov 13, 7:03*am, 150flivver wrote:
On Nov 13, 7:54*am, Andy wrote:

Not sure of the point of your reply. *You do not contest the
conclusion that FAA regards earning flight time as "compensation" and
that was the OP's question.

The question you answer is whether that compensation is currently
allowed for a private rated tow pilot, and clearly it is.

Andy

The OP didn't ask a question. *My response was a feeble response
attempting to clarify his observation.

You are right, sorry. The question was asked by the second poster "So
let me get this straight. Logging flight time IS considered by the FAA
as a form of compensation? Please tell me I got that wrong."

Andy

On Nov 13, 10:23*am, Andy wrote:
On Nov 13, 7:03*am, 150flivver wrote:

On Nov 13, 7:54*am, Andy wrote:

Not sure of the point of your reply. *You do not contest the
conclusion that FAA regards earning flight time as "compensation" and
that was the OP's question.

The question you answer is whether that compensation is currently
allowed for a private rated tow pilot, and clearly it is.

Andy

The OP didn't ask a question. *My response was a feeble response
attempting to clarify his observation.

You are right, sorry. *The question was asked by the second poster "So
let me get this straight. Logging flight time IS considered by the FAA
as a form of compensation? Please tell me I got that wrong."

Andy

No, you didn't get that wrong. If you agreed to fly my aircraft to
the shop for its annual (I pay all the expenses, you just fly it) and
you did it, you had better be a commercial pilot if the FAA ever
questioned you on the circumstances surrounding the trip. There is no
exception to the rules governing receiving compensation for doing
favors like there is for towing gliders.

Thanks, Phil.
Believe that's the first time I've seen an RAS posting out of the
head office, and appreciate the input.
The next big US contest (Seniors) is a few months off, so there's time
to discover what the insurance company has to say.
Apologies to Harris Hill,
Jim

On Nov 12, 6:19*pm, Phil Umphres wrote:
.....
Bottom line: nothing bad has happened and possibly something really
good. *But we are still sorting it out and it is all a bit premature
to be talking about what this means. *We will publish something on
this in Soaring magazine and on the SSA website when we get a clearer
picture of how the FAA and the insurance situations all fit together.

Phil Umphres, Chairman,
The Soaring Society of America, Inc.

On Nov 14, 6:03*am, 150flivver wrote:
No, you didn't get that wrong. *If you agreed to fly my aircraft to
the shop for its annual (I pay all the expenses, you just fly it) and
you did it, you had better be a commercial pilot if the FAA ever
questioned you on the circumstances surrounding the trip.

No, that's not true.

You just can't count the time towards a higher rating.

On Nov 14, 2:53*am, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Nov 14, 6:03*am, 150flivver wrote:

No, you didn't get that wrong. *If you agreed to fly my aircraft to
the shop for its annual (I pay all the expenses, you just fly it) and
you did it, you had better be a commercial pilot if the FAA ever
questioned you on the circumstances surrounding the trip.

No, that's not true.

You just can't count the time towards a higher rating.

So I can fly cargo or give rides to paying customers or do anything
that normally requires a commercial rating in someone elses aircraft
(not specifically stated as an exception) as long as I don't get paid
cash or use the time towards a higher rating? I think not. Show me
where the regulations allow a private pilot to do this. I can show you
the regulations that specify private pilot privileges and no where
does it state that a private pilot can do more as long as he doesn't
log it or use it for a higher rating in the future.

"150flivver" wrote

So I can fly cargo or give rides to paying customers or do anything
that normally requires a commercial rating in someone elses aircraft
(not specifically stated as an exception) as long as I don't get paid
cash or use the time towards a higher rating? I think not. Show me
where the regulations allow a private pilot to do this. I can show you
the regulations that specify private pilot privileges and no where
does it state that a private pilot can do more as long as he doesn't
log it or use it for a higher rating in the future.

Show us where it is prohibited.
--
Jim in NC

On 11-14-2010 13:50, 150flivver wrote:
On Nov 14, 2:53 am, Bruce wrote:
On Nov 14, 6:03 am, wrote:

No, you didn't get that wrong. If you agreed to fly my aircraft to
the shop for its annual (I pay all the expenses, you just fly it) and
you did it, you had better be a commercial pilot if the FAA ever
questioned you on the circumstances surrounding the trip.

No, that's not true.

You just can't count the time towards a higher rating.

So I can fly cargo or give rides to paying customers

No, but you CAN "split expenses" as a private pilot when giving "rides".
From the FAA website:

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (h) of this section,
no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in
command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for
compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act
as pilot in command of an aircraft.

(b) Not applicable to this discussion

(c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the
operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses
involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.

Nowhere does the FAA mention if the plane is someone else's aircraft,
etc. that it constitutes "commercial activity".

or do anything
that normally requires a commercial rating in someone elses aircraft
(not specifically stated as an exception) as long as I don't get paid
cash or use the time towards a higher rating? I think not. Show me
where the regulations allow a private pilot to do this. I can show you
the regulations that specify private pilot privileges and no where
does it state that a private pilot can do more as long as he doesn't
log it or use it for a higher rating in the future.

On Nov 14, 8:16*am, "Morgans" wrote:
"150flivver" wrote

So I can fly cargo or give rides to paying customers or do anything
that normally requires a commercial rating in someone elses aircraft
(not specifically stated as an exception) as long as I don't get paid
cash or use the time towards a higher rating? *I think not. *Show me
where the regulations allow a private pilot to do this. I can show you
the regulations that specify private pilot privileges and no where
does it state that a private pilot can do more as long as he doesn't
log it or *use it for a higher rating in the future.

Show us where it is prohibited.
--
Jim in NC

Read 61.113 in its entirety. Here's an extract: "(a) Except as
provided in paragraphs (b) through (h) of this section, no person who
holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command of an
aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation or
hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in
command of an aircraft."

There's no "unless the private pilot doesn't log it or use it for
higher rating experience requirements" verbiage in this paragraph.
The FAA has defined compensation to include free flight time in
rulings handed down in enforcement actions which have been upheld by
administrative/judicial reviews and in letters published by the FAA
Chief Counsel.

Now, where is your proof that it is permitted?

On Nov 14, 8:27*am, Scott wrote:
On 11-14-2010 13:50, 150flivver wrote:

On Nov 14, 2:53 am, Bruce *wrote:
On Nov 14, 6:03 am, *wrote:

No, you didn't get that wrong. *If you agreed to fly my aircraft to
the shop for its annual (I pay all the expenses, you just fly it) and
you did it, you had better be a commercial pilot if the FAA ever
questioned you on the circumstances surrounding the trip.

No, that's not true.

You just can't count the time towards a higher rating.

So I can fly cargo or give rides to paying customers

No, but you CAN "split expenses" as a private pilot when giving "rides".
* From the FAA website:

* (a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (h) of this section,
no person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in
command of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for
compensation or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act
as pilot in command of an aircraft.

(b) Not applicable to this discussion

(c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the
operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses
involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.

Nowhere does the FAA mention if the plane is someone else's aircraft,
etc. that it constitutes "commercial activity".

* or do anything

that normally requires a commercial rating in someone elses aircraft
(not specifically stated as an exception) as long as I don't get paid
cash or use the time towards a higher rating? *I think not. *Show me
where the regulations allow a private pilot to do this. I can show you
the regulations that specify private pilot privileges and no where
does it state that a private pilot can do more as long as he doesn't
log it or *use it for a higher rating in the future.