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#11
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Beginner, Parachutes?
Well, then it sounds like I should buy a parachute after I solo! |
#12
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Beginner, Parachutes?
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:51:50 -0800 (PST), wrote:
[snip] chute and never have a problem. I think part of the (psychological) problem that I have is that the Cherokee is so quiet I can HEAR other airplanes before I can see them. I'll see your "hear other airplanes" and raise you one...I've heard a GLIDER from a glider. Right after I heard its towplane. NMAC's don't get any more N than that one... rj |
#13
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Beginner, Parachutes?
On Nov 20, 7:57*am, vic20owner wrote:
Dumb beginner question follows: I am just starting out flying gliders.... * Here in the USA it seems nobody wears a parachute unless they are contest flying or doing aerobatics. *However, I generally do like knowing that I have a backup plan and a parachute seems reasonable. *I suppose a history of cave diving has made me sensitive to accident possibilities. *I realize flying is very safe but gliders tend to fly in circles near each other. Would it be premature to buy and wear a parachute while still taking lessons, or would I quickly become the club's private joke? thanks As most pilots come to injury or grief in the landing phase where a parachute is not a factor, use during training with an instructor is generally not a factor. Use during competitions and aerobatics does reflect on the somewhat increased risk associated with types of flying. That doesn't mean that the rare event where a parachute made a difference doesn't occur. As mentioned, use by a single person in a two-seater is generally bad form unless perhaps strapped to a lightweight person for ballasting purposes. One club took the position that all training flights would use parachutes and that policy was fortuitous for the instructor and student when their glider was hit by a lightning bolt that struck five miles from the cloud, causing the glider to 'explode'. However, there have been many more accidents caused at altitudes below parachute effectiveness through failure to fly the aircraft when finding the canopy unlatched. Several injuries and fatals have resulted from spins during training flights, just to compare risks. A German study once concluded that survival in an incident requiring parachute use below 600m agl was very low. That said, some emergency chutes are very effective at low altitudes with good horizontal speed. Not long ago there was a mid- air between a glider and a jet, the glider pilot survived using his chute. Several years ago there was a mid-air in the same region, that pilot was not wearing a chute, but managed to limp back to the the airport with a fuselage that was nearly severed by the impact. This past summer there was a mid-air during a competition in the US where one of the pilots successfully hit the silk and the other was able to fly back to a safe landings. Note it was during competition, one of the increased risk scenarios. Several years ago a pilot with a folded up wing rode his glider into the trees in Florida. Most of these are rare happenings. I normally don't wear a chute in the club two-seaters, but I do wear one in my own gliders. I'm unlikely to use one unless I know the primary structure has failed. Even then, I have to consider the outcomes. I bought one of these while flying in the UK http://tinyurl.com/64btg9 Why? Because it's a comfortable chair type chute and my first choice was several months backordered http://tinyurl.com/55t3fz and I didn't wish to wait. At the time they were separate companies. Look at the performance differences. As I fly in the US west mostly, my current chute is unlikely to allow a landing without injury over the elevations where we fly. The EB80 is quite a bit different in pack and performance and will probably be my choice for a replacement one of these days. About 30 years ago, a pilot doing a high speed pass in an Open Cirrus VTC fluttered it to pieces. He departed the glider at about 100ft at 100kts and landed safely in his EB80. No interest in the company, but a fondness for this rig. I wore one for three years of flying an SHK. Other pilots will have an appreciation for chutes that have served them well. A little history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_Club Frank Whiteley |
#14
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Beginner, Parachutes?
On Nov 20, 10:02*am, vic20owner wrote:
Well, then it sounds like I should buy a parachute after I solo! Actually, since it sounds like you plan on sticking with soaring (great to hear!) and want a chute, it is never too early to begin getting used to the care/feeding/operation of a potential critical life saving device. Buy a chute now and wear it proudly. It makes a lot more sense to take up the empty space between you and the seatback with a chute than with crusty club cushions or dirty laundry! I recommend a Softie as they are very comfortable and have the slowest decent rate per canopy diameter. I bought a National for my first chute since I figured I would get the cheapest chute I could lacking information otherwise. My National is NOT comfortable on longer flights and never really 'broke in' and got any better. It also has the highest decent rate/canopy diameter since it has the least amount of panels/risers which makes the deployed canopy draw tighter, into smaller diameter and thus be less effective (in addition to using more porous fabric). A lot of people swear by Strong chutes, and their track record shows they do indeed work. I find them overly bulky myself, and (supposedly...) the design has not been updated since it's inception, despite many material and technique advances in the industry. There are others of course too, but those are the 'big three' available at most US glider related outlets. Any is better than none, as there are more members of the 'caterpiller club' here than we would like to think. -Paul |
#15
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Beginner, Parachutes?
On Nov 20, 10:59*am, "noel.wade" wrote:
Bottom-line: Wearing a parachute is a personal choice (in the USA); so if others choose not to wear one, that's their perogative. You should feel free to do what you feel is best and safest - not what will make you popular or fashionable around others. If your club members ridicule you for trying to be safe, then it's the wrong club to be associated with! Take care, --Noel You might enjoy this thread http://tinyurl.com/5coak4 |
#16
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Beginner, Parachutes?
not a dumb question at all!
having already bailed out of one glider and successfully survived the ordeal I find it very uncomfortable to fly without one...in fact for many years found it uncomfortable to even fly with one!.. at the time, I too was in a club that quite frankly didn't use parachutes, some there even made some remarks because I did...but none the less, almost all gliders are designed for parachutes to be used in them, most flight manuals calculated weight and balance takes this into account and requires you to either wear a parachute or add cushions to put you in the same position...makes little sense to have cushions behind you when the wings come apart! If you continue to fly gliders and progress to more sophisticated singe seat designs you'll want a parachute anyway....they are actually quite comfortable.....and comforting to have there... also a bigger parts of wearing a parachute is knowing how to use it.....read the manual, go through the motions.....or even get with a sport parachuting club or operation and get an hours worth of instruction on how to use it and avoid common mistakes..Emergency parachutes are designed to work even when you do things terribly wrong with them, that's what sets them apart from sport skydiving parachutes, but you can enhance your safety and willingness to actually use one without hesitation if the case ever comes up.. "I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was down here" best of luck! Tim Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com "vic20owner" wrote in message ... Dumb beginner question follows: I am just starting out flying gliders.... Here in the USA it seems nobody wears a parachute unless they are contest flying or doing aerobatics. However, I generally do like knowing that I have a backup plan and a parachute seems reasonable. I suppose a history of cave diving has made me sensitive to accident possibilities. I realize flying is very safe but gliders tend to fly in circles near each other. Would it be premature to buy and wear a parachute while still taking lessons, or would I quickly become the club's private joke? thanks |
#17
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Beginner, Parachutes?
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:48:20 -0800 (PST), Frank Whiteley
wrote: On Nov 20, 10:59*am, "noel.wade" wrote: Bottom-line: Wearing a parachute is a personal choice (in the USA); so if others choose not to wear one, that's their perogative. You should feel free to do what you feel is best and safest - not what will make you popular or fashionable around others. If your club members ridicule you for trying to be safe, then it's the wrong club to be associated with! Take care, --Noel You might enjoy this thread http://tinyurl.com/5coak4 Reminds me of the controversy some years back when the FAA ordered jet warbird owners to disable their ejection seats... rj |
#18
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Beginner, Parachutes?
Regardless of what kind of flight I'm taking in a glider of any type,
I feel naked and insecure without a parachute on. This is based on the reports of inflight collisions I've read (e.g. the Hawker/ASG29 near Minden), and my own experience as a rookie x/c pilot when I carelessly got sucked into a CU. Fortunately I didn't break the glider but like Andy's experience at that first turnpoint, it left a lasting impression. ~ted/2NO ps full disclosure -- I'm also biased by a previous life as a skydiver; jumpers are nervous getting in any small aircraft without a rig on. |
#19
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Beginner, Parachutes?
Quick follow-up: My club is based at the same airport as the guys
that make Softie Parachutes. Most of the folks here love 'em (we have 6 chutes just for use in the club fleet, plus a lot of guys who own their glider and fly with a Softie). They're not the cheapest, but they're comfortable and effective. Sometimes they sell used chutes on consignment for a good price. Some of the IAC folks in my area love the folks at Silver Parachutes, and certainly other brands work fine. If you have access to a few parachutes, try them on and adjust the straps and see how they feel (preferrably in a seating position like you would be in a glider) - there's no substitute for hands-on review before deciding on which type to buy. Take care, --Noel |
#20
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Beginner, Parachutes?
vic20owner wrote:
Dumb beginner question follows: I am just starting out flying gliders.... Here in the USA it seems nobody wears a parachute unless they are contest flying or doing aerobatics. However, I generally do like knowing that I have a backup plan and a parachute seems reasonable. I suppose a history of cave diving has made me sensitive to accident possibilities. I realize flying is very safe but gliders tend to fly in circles near each other. Would it be premature to buy and wear a parachute while still taking lessons, or would I quickly become the club's private joke? thanks Man - only on the internet could I 'discover' a thread ~24 hours after it started, and find it was old/over on the same day! Anyhow... "What everyone else has already said." 'Way back when' when my instructor kicked me out of the 2-33 we'd been flying to the club's 1-26, he added (in what seemed to me, then, almost an afterthought), "Go grab a parachute for the flight." "Why?" asks I. "We haven't been using them on our flights." "I can't fit in the back of a 2-33 with a 'chute, and you don't get one if I don't get one. Trust me...wear a 'chute any time you can." That last bit made sense then. Still does today. A few years later, my personal 'chute was in for a repack, so I flew my (supine-piloting-position) HP-14 resting atop 4" of foam. It simultaneously: was terrifying; felt akin to (I imagine!) being naked before the Pope; provided much food for contemplation of the U.S. FAA's 'curious wisdom' regarding emergency 'chute accessibility to the PIC vs. violating then-applicable 'chute FARs. Of course my view may have been biased by being a 1-time user of the same 'chute... Regards, Bob - likes to listen to those little voices in his head - W. P.S. As already noted, you'd be rather irked with yourself - for a while, anyway - if you needed a 'chute and had opted to fly without it. |
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