SSA Booth April 4-6 at nations largest RC exhibition

On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 1:02:17 PM UTC-4, waremark wrote:
The skill shown in the RC videos is extraordinary. However, I don't see that it has any more relevance to learning to fly whether RC or full size than watching a Ken Block video has to learning to drive.

I will say as an "ex CFIG" (8 years officially), previous decent simulator (Microsoft flight sim, etc.) or RC aircraft experience showed a much faster learning curve than, "Walk off the street person" did.

Yes, the student still needed to learn, "Real 3D feelings" that neither of the other routes could provide. But, it was a help in an overwhelming percentage.

BTW, when my son thought "drifting" was cool, I sent him links to Ken Block..... now he thinks WRC drivers are REALLY cool. ;-)
PS, I do as well!

You'd think that RC fliers would be ideal candidates for us but this seems not to be so. I have displayed my LS8-18 at Scale Air Shows at my club and other RC clubs (tons of visitors, fliers from other clubs), have raffled off for years free ASK-21 glider rides, have talked about soaring at club meetings and at virtually every single trip to our RC airfield. People ask about my recent x-country flights and seem to be genuinely impressed/interested in what we do. However, I have not been able to convince one single RC pilot to join our glider club. I have pretty much given up trying to recruit.
Maybe it's me...

On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 2:27:11 PM UTC-6, wrote:
You'd think that RC fliers would be ideal candidates for us but this seems not to be so. I have displayed my LS8-18 at Scale Air Shows at my club and other RC clubs (tons of visitors, fliers from other clubs), have raffled off for years free ASK-21 glider rides, have talked about soaring at club meetings and at virtually every single trip to our RC airfield. People ask about my recent x-country flights and seem to be genuinely impressed/interested in what we do. However, I have not been able to convince one single RC pilot to join our glider club. I have pretty much given up trying to recruit.
Maybe it's me...

There's a subtle fear factor that has to be addressed. Model builders/flyers have seen a LOT of them crash and they unconsciously assume that's how full-size glider work. One has to convince them that full-size gliders have a good safety record - at least compared to models.

On Sunday, 10 May 2015 19:09:21 UTC+1, Bill D wrote:
On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 11:02:17 AM UTC-6, waremark wrote:
The skill shown in the RC videos is extraordinary. However, I don't see that it has any more relevance to learning to fly whether RC or full size than watching a Ken Block video has to learning to drive.

As a one-time model builder and flyer, I can tell you it has a LOT of relevance.

I think I did not make my point clear. I was not saying that RC or Sim flying was not relevant, I was saying that the videos showed such extreme skill that anyone would realise normal folk would never be able to get to that level.

On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 5:26:20 PM UTC-4, waremark wrote:

I think I did not make my point clear. I was not saying that RC or Sim flying was not relevant, I was saying that the videos showed such extreme skill that anyone would realise normal folk would never be able to get to that level.

That is a very valid point. I am not sure it is worthwhile trying to speculate whether the "skill" required for flying RC is relevant to flying FS - I think it is way more individual than that - I would argue though, that the "enthusiasm" for flight is very relevant - and that was the point I was trying to make.

What I was trying to point out is the perceived difference in what I would call "Production Quality" of promotional materials for each sport. There is a huge difference in that area. I was trying to somewhat convey that idea with the videos that I linked to.

The soaring grand prix video is the closest soaring video I have seen that comes close to the production quality that can really get people excited.

As someone who is starting the cross-over, I am getting somewhat frustrated with the information that is available online (or lack thereof). Also, the information that is available, could use a little spicing up. (FAA Glider Flying Handbook is quite nice - but FAQs and a good Acronym glossary are missing)

Many web sites feel like they were created 20 years ago and seem to have lots of missing information.

Many videos fail to convey the excitement - with the exception of the some of the Grand Prix videos mentioned, as well as Bruno B's videos - I wanna see more landouts - more videos of contest flying - more explanations (Info Graphs) of how contests work.

On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 5:02:36 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
Model builders/flyers have seen a LOT of them crash and they unconsciously assume that's how full-size glider work.

A fundamental excitement for model flyers is that they might crash their model. When that happens, they get to buy or build another one.

A fundamental excitement of soaring is that I might crash. I'm putting my life on the line.

Sure there are some people who do or have done both, but there is a fundamental personality difference, and I'm not sure that that trait can be changed by marketing and salesmanship.

There are people that already have that fundamental trait.
Expert downhill skiers or snowboarders come to mind. Besides their willingness to risk life and limb in pursuit of sport, they are used to driving to their recreational destination, spending lots of cash, and doing what they can to avoid crashes. They like speed, exposure and a steady learning curve, good scenery and being outdoors. They take lessons. The sensation of downhill skiing is a lot like flying.

Skier/snowboarders are interesting demographic. M/F balanced. Largely single with time for recreation. Disposable income. Not risk adverse.

On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 6:00:41 PM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 5:02:36 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
Model builders/flyers have seen a LOT of them crash and they unconsciously assume that's how full-size glider work.

A fundamental excitement for model flyers is that they might crash their model. When that happens, they get to buy or build another one.

A fundamental excitement of soaring is that I might crash. I'm putting my life on the line.


This is absolutely not true at all and this attitude shows a great deal of disrespect for the dangers involved with many RC models. Maybe for those RC pilots that are flying $99 Horizon Hobby foamy planes, or a .30 size glow trainer airplane - but let's see you pilot a 700 size RC helicopter and not get weak knees and a huge lump in your throat just thinking about the possibility of death.

The RC Heli world has had a really tough couple of years with at least 5 deaths that I know of directly related to injuries sustained from their helicopter. One of those deaths was a friend of mine - and a sponsored/professional pilot in Brooklyn, NY.

Not a fan of helicopters, ok, then how about standing on cliff bringing a dynamic soaring glider to speeds over 450mph - what do you think would happen if this sailplane (with over a 6 ft wingspan) happened to lose control and head straight for the RC pilot? Hint - it's not simply gonna bounce off.

These pilots do think about death. They are pushing the limits of this sport. But even if you are not pushing the limit of life and limb there is still a major pucker factor even if you are flying say a relatively safe RC jet- there are pilots out there flying $10,000 even $20,000 RC jets. Do you really think these guys want to crash these planes just so they can build the next one? Serious?

I dare you to stand next to either one of the pilots as their spotter without pooping in your pants from overwhelming fear... I have - and can tell you without a doubt it was way more frightening than my first time soloing a glider:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17lmeOfpxVU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfoxjNg-eg0

I can second that. Standing next to a 700 size 3d helicopter is one of the most terrifying experiences I have ever ever had.

Imagine a 20 pound, 700mm wide, rabid, angry, highly agitated, alien dragonfly "thing" with carbon samurai swords for wings (that spin at 5,000 rpm) and high voltage electricity for teeth.

The sound these machines make at full, 3d RPM is enough to cause a visceral bodily reaction. As a human being, you know that you are in danger just being around it. It is incredibly dangerous as one broken solder or linkage failure and its light speed path to the ground is impossible to determine (or see).

Additionally, the coordination required to fly these maneuvers is almost superhuman. Pilots make mistakes and can get disorientated. If you are in the way of the rotors under full power they can (and will) cut thru a human very efficiently. I have witnessed several severe crashes (the largest piece was about the size of my forearm) that were fairly close calls to the pilots. Frankly, I find the sport of large scale 3d heli flying to be "a bit reckless."

That the community has not learned from the recent accidents and recommended or required a barrier or net to be used to ensure safety is beyond me. I am surprised that the AMA has not done more.

I fly smaller Heli's now, up to a 450 and that is enjoyable and fun (and slightly safer).

Sorry to hear about your friends accident and be safe!