L 33 Solo Gliders

In the W&W Claasifieds there is a L33 Solo listed for 13K Canadian, that about 9400 USD.
I read Dick Johnsons flight report and he liked it, he was concerned that it had very little aerodynamic stall warning and would readily drop into a spin. He thought it best if low timers had real spin training before taking it out.
He also measured the performance at 31/1
For those who have owned these...
Are they easy or difficult to rig?
How have they held up?
Can you leave them tied out for the season? [ There all metal except for the rudder which is fabric]
Is the 31/ 1 LD sufficient for day in day out XC?
Are they nice to thermal?
Are they suitable for beginners with proper spin training?
Do you guys give them the overall thumbs up or thumbs down?
Thanks in advance!
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.

I flew one twice, landed out on second flight and spent more time than I liked figuring out how the wheel brake worked.

Rig and derig better than many other gliders of similar vintage.

Comparable performance and handling to the PW-5 for less money. Neither has penetration. The accident record is well populated with L-33s trying to stretch glides back to the home field.

I saw one written off because the canopy was not properly closed and the pilot held the canopy down and sideslipped because he did not have a hand free to use the spoilers. The pin can sit on top of the tube leaving a really narrow gap that is hard to catch.

HINT: Right rudder.

Parts can be a problem.

At 15:33 14 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
In the W&W Claasifieds there is a L33 Solo listed for 13K
Canadian, that
about 9400 USD.
I read Dick Johnsons flight report and he liked it, he was
concerned that
it had very little aerodynamic stall warning and would readily
drop into a
spin. He thought it best if low timers had real spin training
before
taking it out.
He also measured the performance at 31/1
For those who have owned these...
Are they easy or difficult to rig?
How have they held up?
Can you leave them tied out for the season? [ There all metal
except for
the rudder which is fabric]
Is the 31/ 1 LD sufficient for day in day out XC?
Are they nice to thermal?
Are they suitable for beginners with proper spin training?
Do you guys give them the overall thumbs up or thumbs down?
Thanks in advance!
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.

Never flown one but why would you buy a glider that readily spins
at any price? It's not like there are no alternatives.

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 12:30:06 PM UTC-7, Dave Walsh wrote:
At 15:33 14 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
In the W&W Claasifieds there is a L33 Solo listed for 13K
Canadian, that
about 9400 USD.
I read Dick Johnsons flight report and he liked it, he was
concerned that
it had very little aerodynamic stall warning and would readily
drop into a
spin. He thought it best if low timers had real spin training
before
taking it out.
He also measured the performance at 31/1
For those who have owned these...
Are they easy or difficult to rig?
How have they held up?
Can you leave them tied out for the season? [ There all metal
except for
the rudder which is fabric]
Is the 31/ 1 LD sufficient for day in day out XC?
Are they nice to thermal?
Are they suitable for beginners with proper spin training?
Do you guys give them the overall thumbs up or thumbs down?
Thanks in advance!
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.

Never flown one but why would you buy a glider that readily spins
at any price? It's not like there are no alternatives.

SGS-2-32, North American T-6, both spin readily and are great birds!

Jonathan St. Cloud wrote on 3/14/2020 12:46 PM:
On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 12:30:06 PM UTC-7, Dave Walsh wrote:
At 15:33 14 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
..
..
..
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.

Never flown one but why would you buy a glider that readily spins
at any price? It's not like there are no alternatives.

SGS-2-32, North American T-6, both spin readily and are great birds!

For your 14 year old son?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 12:49:19 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jonathan St. Cloud wrote on 3/14/2020 12:46 PM:
On Saturday, March 14, 2020 at 12:30:06 PM UTC-7, Dave Walsh wrote:
At 15:33 14 March 2020, Nick Kennedy wrote:
.
.
.
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.

Never flown one but why would you buy a glider that readily spins
at any price? It's not like there are no alternatives.

SGS-2-32, North American T-6, both spin readily and are great birds!

For your 14 year old son?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Nick,
Our club has a couple and I've flown them on occasion. I'm not a big guy, but I found them very tight through the shoulders. They can be tied out, but our experience is that they aren't very rugged and accumulate lots of rash in a club environment. They particularly don't like tail first landings.

For your 14yo son, you might consider an older standard Astir or a Jantar. They're built like tanks (particularly the Jantar). I've flew an Astir as a younger pilot and found it to have decent performance and to handle reliably. Not as harmonious as an LS-3, but very honest.

Cheers,
Craig
JN

I was fortunate to have been in a club which had an L-33. I found it to be a joy to fly. The cockpit was comfortable, and it had great visibility and control harmony. If your son is solo in an L-23 or Grob, he should have no problem with an L-33. Of course, with it's lighter weight and shorter wings it is more nimble. It requires a little more care to maintain proper pitch attitude, almost like flying a single seat glass ship.

There are really no serious "Got ya's" from a flying standpoint. I intentionally stalled and spun the L-33 many times. Stall and spin entries were predictable, as were the recoveries. Nor were the stall or spin entries abrupt or without warning.

One thing to be aware of is that the spoilers are extremely effective. Trying to flare with full spoilers and low airspeed will likely mean banging down hard tail first and putting creases in the tail cone just forward of the vertical stabilizer.

Tying down all year is just fine. Of course, like anything else left out, the weather will take it's toll. Be aware that the pin that holds the horizontal stabilizer needs to be taken out more than once a year to be cleaned and greased. Otherwise, it can seize. I can tell you from personal experience that makes it a major pain to take off the horizontal stabilizer.

Rigging is easy, primarily due to the light weight and short wings. However, two things to be aware of. Somebody who is completely unfamiliar with an L-33 can get the main pins installed in such a way that they look like they are in and locked, but are not. On glass ships, the spar butt length is about the width of the fuselage, but on the L-33 the spar butt length is about half the width of the fuselage. That makes it difficult to hang on to it while sticking the spar butt into the hole. Best to use three people, two on root (one on the trailing edge, one on leading edge), and one on the tip. Or use one man rigging gear. Yes, I have rigged L-33s many time with only two people, but it was a challenge for me to handle the root by myself.

Flying X-C in the L-33 was fun, but it was annoying to watch the glass ships consistently out run me. Out climbing them was fun, though. Look on the bright side, your son's land outs will be closer to home. Make sure you get a good trailer.

Nick Kennedy wrote on 3/14/2020 8:33 AM:
In the W&W Claasifieds there is a L33 Solo listed for 13K Canadian, that about 9400 USD.
I read Dick Johnsons flight report and he liked it, he was concerned that it had very little aerodynamic stall warning and would readily drop into a spin. He thought it best if low timers had real spin training before taking it out.
He also measured the performance at 31/1
For those who have owned these...
Are they easy or difficult to rig?
How have they held up?
Can you leave them tied out for the season? [ There all metal except for the rudder which is fabric]
Is the 31/ 1 LD sufficient for day in day out XC?
Are they nice to thermal?
Are they suitable for beginners with proper spin training?
Do you guys give them the overall thumbs up or thumbs down?
Thanks in advance!
Looking for a 1st ship for my 14 yr old son.

I suggest you also consider fiberglass gliders, and if you think putting them away
will be too much trouble, budget some money for a set of covers. W&W, Craggy Aero
have good covers in the $1200 range, and gliders often have covers already. But,
putting a 15M glider away in a good trailer isn't difficult in a club situation
(lots of help). If you are a weekend flyer, it can be left out Saturday night to
be flown on Sunday - two flights, one rig/derig isn't bad.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Nick consider a schweizer 1-26. Very very safe and predictable, easy two man rigging and you can leave tied out for the season if you like. I can’t tell you how many times I have come out to the club on a so-so day and untied her and gone for a nice spin while the glass boys stand around hem-hawing deciding if its worth it to go to the trouble of rigging lol.

As for a learning tool, I can tell you your son will learn more about thermalling, efficient cruising, and calc final glides flying a season or two in a 1-26 than he will in a higher performance ship. When he is then ready to move up in performance, he will be a hell of alot better pilot, and the resale value is there with a ready market and great factory and 1-26 association support.
Dan

Hi Nick:

My club has one and I have flown it a few times and checked out many students in it. Here are a few comments:

Pluses: Can be left outside tied down (we do during the season), reasonably light and easy to rig/derig, excellent integrated seat ballast system, good balance and control harmony, climbs very well, seating is more reclined than comparable gliders, looks like a modern glider.

Minuses: Ours has a tendency to drop a wing on takeoff (that may relate to the reclined seating position), parts & factory support can be an issue, check carefully for wing tip fore & aft slop and elevator tip up/down slop, also they have a crude metal tail dolly & wheel that looks like it was made in the 19th century for coal mining operations. All Blaniks seem to have difficulty with non factory repainting still looking good after a while. Their aluminum requires really good surface prep to repaint. Ours is all metal finish and that is more desirable.

Suggestions: Have your son at least sit in it for 30 minutes or so with parachute on before buying and get him some good spin recognition and recovery training before flying it. But with that don't be put off by the spin characteristics. Lots of gliders he will fly in his career will spin.

Comparable gliders to consider: Pilatus B-4, Schweizer 1-34 or 1-36 Sprite, Laister LP-49.

FWIW: When my son was 14 we got him a 1-26E. Admittedly they don't have the glide performance - but from one father to another, that's what you want his first off airport landing to be in.
Good Luck
Roy B, Chief Pilot GBSC