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Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 30th 20, 08:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Ethridge
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

Hi all.

I've done thousands of landings in all kinds of airplanes at tower-controlled airports (now called Class B, C and D), but I've never seen a glider land at one.

Does ATC frown upon this (unless one declares an emergency in which case you have a new problem) or to they take this in stride and accommodate us gliders as an unusual but accepted part of their workday?

Faced with the choice of this or a field, what would insurance say if I broke the glider landing in the field? Might insurance deny my claim since there was a perfectly good tower-controlled airport within gliding distance?

If this is an accepted practice at tower-controlled fields, how do you get the glider off the taxiway? Do they have an FBO come out and tow you off?

Ben
  #2  
Old May 30th 20, 09:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tony[_5_]
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

I have transited several times and landed once at the local Class D airport.. I stopped at a taxiway turnoff then pushed the glider past the hold short line then contacted ground control and "taxied" to the ramp. This airport is a contract tower and they are happy for any action that increases their traffic count.

I haven't had a chance to land at the Class C airport nearby but have talked to approach control many times when soaring nearby. My glider is transponder equipped.
  #3  
Old May 30th 20, 11:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

Most controllers will have a conniption if you spring this on them. At places like ELM, ITH, LAL they have an idea what you're up to. For sure, class C requires a transponder of you're going to be doing some 'splainin'.

I monitor the freq and get an idea what's happening before I get close. ATIS/ASOS earns you points. If there are multiple runways and you can plan to avoid tying things up and roll/push clear quickly that would be awesome - e..g. volunteer to use an inactive runway and hold short of active.

BOW controller told a glider pilot to land or go away when he called to say he wanted to struggle through the airspace. Group response the next day was "how dare he", etc., etc. But class D is reserved for aircraft arriving and departing. Read the reg. If a controller lets you grind around and escape they may really be bending over backwards...
  #4  
Old May 30th 20, 11:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

Getting to the ramp - at LAL they sent an airport ops guy in a pickup. I had short towline with me - a good idea to carry - and he pulled me to the ramp. It was close enough to push, but hey, I made a new friend.

Hopefully your speaker is loud enough to hear standing outside the ship with the canopy closed. You can tell ground that you can follow taxi instructions but have to stop and get to the microphone to read them back. Handheld even better in this case.

If you're flying something too large to shove by yourself, ask them if they can contact FBO or airport staff to assist.
  #5  
Old May 31st 20, 12:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

It's true class D tower operators don't have to let you transition, but its often in their best interest to do so. In a past life as a CFI (in a -172) we gave many sight seeing and introductory flights that required a Class D transition or lengthy detour.
One busy day I was denied access. What this new controller failed to realize was this forced me to fly around the airspace and through the final aproach course of her only ILS at a busy corporate airport. Out side of the airspace I could do what ever I wanted and didn't have to respond to radio calls. Had I been cleared directly over head or through a distant part of the airspace life would have been better for all.
Now, if you're trying to land they can't deny you for being a glider but they can ask you to standby for work load reasons (which for us is a non-starter of course). Airmanship would dictate that you had a plan once on the ground to not impede traffic and get to the FBO with out tower assistance. Landing a glider is busy enough with out trying to manage all that last minute. I'd need a serious reason to head for our of our local class D relief airports.
Glider pilots don't get much experience with radio etiquette. There's a bit of a dance you must do with controllers, behave professionally and they'll let you play, stumble in blathering all over and you'll get the cold shoulder.
  #6  
Old May 31st 20, 01:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Roy B.
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

I have had lots of experience with this flying gliders in New England where there is much controlled airspace. I have found that a lot depends on whether you sound (on the radio) like you know what you are doing. If you do, they seem to take the glider traffic in stride. If you sound like you are in crisis mode they will help you - but you are not welcome there as they will likely disrupt all the other traffic to get you in.

A crisp professional initial call up indicating that you have the most recent ATIS information and a statement that you "can follow their traffic" (meaning you don't have to cut in front of somebody) goes a long way toward making you welcome.

Don't ask the tower for anything that might put them "on the spot" (like asking to land in the grass or on a taxi way) and do your utmost to roll clear of the active runway.

Transiting class C airspace with a transponder is now much easier because they will usually let you keep the 1202 code and you don't have to fumble with a new one.

My two favorite experiences were at Aspen CO being sandwiched between a Lear 35 ahead of me in the pattern and a Dash-8 behind me, and at Lebanon NH when we had to land on long distance ferry flight. Both the tug and the glider landed - and they let us launch again out of there.
Great guys in both places.
ROY

  #7  
Old May 31st 20, 02:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 12:47:41 PM UTC-7, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I've done thousands of landings in all kinds of airplanes at tower-controlled airports (now called Class B, C and D), but I've never seen a glider land at one.

Does ATC frown upon this (unless one declares an emergency in which case you have a new problem) or to they take this in stride and accommodate us gliders as an unusual but accepted part of their workday?

Faced with the choice of this or a field, what would insurance say if I broke the glider landing in the field? Might insurance deny my claim since there was a perfectly good tower-controlled airport within gliding distance?

If this is an accepted practice at tower-controlled fields, how do you get the glider off the taxiway? Do they have an FBO come out and tow you off?

Ben


I fly out of Truckee, which since 2017 is Class D with a tower active during normal soaring hours. Every glider operation is under tower control. Truckee has become a busy airport, with lots of biz jet traffic. We make it work, tower personnel are trained to deal with it mostly, and mostly because we were a "pre-existing nuisance". Part of the SOPs is to let the tower know as you enter the airspace that you are a glider with intentions to land. Sometimes we are asked to loiter and wait for jets or big twins in the pattern. Sometimes you have to tell them no, I can't do that. They *greatly* appreciate it if you manage to roll clear of the active runway (made much easier for me by the steerable tailwheel). If I was landing at a Class D unfamiliar with glider ops, I would remind them that I have a fixed decent rate, and may require assistance to clear the runway, specifically have a truck standing by with a rope. Even if they balk at the idea, you've warned them about what is going to happen.
  #8  
Old May 31st 20, 05:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
AS
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 3:47:41 PM UTC-4, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I've done thousands of landings in all kinds of airplanes at tower-controlled airports (now called Class B, C and D), but I've never seen a glider land at one.

Does ATC frown upon this (unless one declares an emergency in which case you have a new problem) or to they take this in stride and accommodate us gliders as an unusual but accepted part of their workday?

Faced with the choice of this or a field, what would insurance say if I broke the glider landing in the field? Might insurance deny my claim since there was a perfectly good tower-controlled airport within gliding distance?

If this is an accepted practice at tower-controlled fields, how do you get the glider off the taxiway? Do they have an FBO come out and tow you off?

Ben


Many moons ago, I had to land out at the 'Wheeling-Ohio Co.' airport in WVa, which at the time was towered - god only knew why! The controller allowed me to try to climb out if I stayed in a particular sector but when that didn't work out, cleared me to land on the not active runway and asked to stop short of the intersection with the active one. After I stopped, he asked me to contact 'Ground' - which turned out to be the same guy - for further assistance. He sent a pickup truck with a rope to get me to the ramp. When I walked into the terminal building, I asked a guy with a mop and a bucket where the restrooms were and that voice sounded awfully familiar .... ;-)
When our club hosted the SSA convention in Greenville, SC, I flew rides in our transponder-equipped G103 out of GMU, right next to the convention center. GMU is located under the class C of GSP and is towered. It was kind of interesting to be sequenced in with the other traffic and cleared to land on the shorter cross-wind runway.
As others mentioned, if you come across like you know what you are doing and if you are not trying to land at LAX, the controllers will work with you.

Uli
'AS'
  #9  
Old May 31st 20, 05:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
5Z
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

Back in the late 1970's, on Memorial Day weekend, a friend flew his Janus (with me in back) from Estrella, AZ to Gillespie Field outside San Diego. Last thermal was around Mt Laguna or so and I had loads of fun keeping track of our exact position with only a Sectional Chart, since it looked like we would just make it.

We arrived a bit above pattern altitude, and my professional airline pilot friend, just used his N-number to identify when making the initial call. Tower told us to report downwind abeam the tower, so we did. I think that as we turned base was when the controller realized we were a glider :-)

He told Tower that we'd roll to the far end of 27 so we could push the ship the few hundred feet to the FBO nearby. A complete non-event.

Flying from Minden around 1990, I got low west of Reno, so contacted the tower as I tried to get up and away. Couldn't find a thermal, so the controller cleared me to land on the taxiway parallel to 25. I think they were used to seeing gliders :-)

When landing at a big airport, whether with or without a tower, I try to scope it out before deciding where I'll land. If there's someone on the ground (or the tower), I'll ask about landing on the ramp or taxiway near tiedowns if it looks safe from above. Keeps me off the runway and simplifies parking the glider. Big airports may have several parking areas, but maybe only one has convenient trailer access.

Another option at many big airports is the high speed taxiway "off ramp" . Fly the first phase of the final approach along the edge opposite the turnoff. Then when lined up with the taxiway, make a small turn and touch down on the runway, then roll out down the taxiway to a place where I'll be out of the way once stopped. Or touch down 100' or so short of the turnoff while aligned with the runway, then turn while still carrying some energy to get clear of the runway. in either case, this provides a few seconds to take a look at the taxiway to confirm it's safe to turn. If there are obstructions, then get stopped ASAP, jump out and push the glider clear.

As pilot in command, you have the right to say "unable" to instructions you don't like, and offer an alternate plan. Be concise and professional on the radio, so know how to talk to ATC properly. Loads of online resources these days to listen and learn how to do it correctly.

A friend once declared an emergency so he could land at a military airport. Tower asked him to "state nature of the emergency".

His response: "Zero fuel". :-)

5Z
  #10  
Old May 31st 20, 07:03 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 12:47:41 PM UTC-7, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I've done thousands of landings in all kinds of airplanes at tower-controlled airports (now called Class B, C and D), but I've never seen a glider land at one.

Does ATC frown upon this (unless one declares an emergency in which case you have a new problem) or to they take this in stride and accommodate us gliders as an unusual but accepted part of their workday?

Faced with the choice of this or a field, what would insurance say if I broke the glider landing in the field? Might insurance deny my claim since there was a perfectly good tower-controlled airport within gliding distance?

If this is an accepted practice at tower-controlled fields, how do you get the glider off the taxiway? Do they have an FBO come out and tow you off?

Ben


You shouldn't think twice about landing at a tower-controlled A/P, but you should contact them by radio FIRST. That said, there is a procedure to land there in the event of a radio failure. I am not going to discuss the procedure here, so look it up. BTW, I have done it. Bottom line: ATC's job is to support aviation of all sorts, but they EXPECT you to follow the rules and there are consequences for not doing so. Also, I am assuming that you are equipped with the required transponder for entering this airspace. Of course, you can always declare an emergency (by radio) and they WILL accommodate you.

Tom
 




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