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#71
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Parowan midair?
I suppose the term 'low cost' is relative and depends upon whether you
compare it to the cost of your sailplane or your life. Bob 7U On Jun 21, 11:18*am, "Wayne Paul" wrote: "Mike Schumann" wrote in ... On 6/20/2010 8:23 PM, Andreas Maurer wrote: ... Snip ... FLARM is useless unless everyone is equipped. *That is NOT going to happen in the US. *Low cost ADS-B could be available tomorrow if the FAA would certify the units. *NAVWORX and MITRE have working prototypes that could go into production overnight if we can get the FAA to get off their but. We need to get people to send letters to Randy Babbitt to get some top level attention to this. *It also wouldn't hurt to copy Craig Fuller at AOPA. *They should be pushing this a LOT more agresively than they have. -- Mike Schumann Just courious, what do you consider "Low Cost." *Us guys with old inexpensive sailplanes would like to know. Wayne |
#72
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Parowan midair?
Bob,
I don't appreciate the smart remark I really want to know. I fly what I can afford. If ADS-B becomes required equipment and is more then I can afford. I will have to leave the sport the sport I love. Wayne .................................. "Bob 7U" wrote in message ... I suppose the term 'low cost' is relative and depends upon whether you compare it to the cost of your sailplane or your life. Bob 7U On Jun 21, 11:18 am, "Wayne Paul" wrote: "Mike Schumann" wrote in ... On 6/20/2010 8:23 PM, Andreas Maurer wrote: ... Snip ... FLARM is useless unless everyone is equipped. That is NOT going to happen in the US. Low cost ADS-B could be available tomorrow if the FAA would certify the units. NAVWORX and MITRE have working prototypes that could go into production overnight if we can get the FAA to get off their but. We need to get people to send letters to Randy Babbitt to get some top level attention to this. It also wouldn't hurt to copy Craig Fuller at AOPA. They should be pushing this a LOT more agresively than they have. -- Mike Schumann Just courious, what do you consider "Low Cost." Us guys with old inexpensive sailplanes would like to know. Wayne |
#73
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Parowan midair?
"Dave White" wrote in message
... I've been following this thread with complete astonishment that anyone could consider the conduct of the Ventus pilot praiseworthy in any respect. There was simply no way for this pilot to assess the airworthiness of the glider after the collision. Just because the visible portion of the nose appeared to be intact does not mean the glider was undamaged elsewhere, or even that the nose was airworthy. Taking this risk in the name of a competition that is ultimately meaningless is not only unbelievable, it's a detriment to soaring, which is already in jeopardy in many areas. Someone with such poor judgement has no place in our sport. "Careless and reckless" are the words the FAA will use to remove this pilot from the community. I'd go with "stupid." There is simply no excuse for what this individual did. There are many old pilots and there are many bold pilots. But....., there are n't many old bold pilots ;-) |
#74
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Parowan midair?
On Jun 21, 10:51*am, Dave White wrote:
*There is simply no excuse for what this individual did. The pilot doesn't need an excuse- free will is sufficient. I would hope that people alone over the boondocks are free to make whatever choices they wish, even if those choices are to maximize the potential of getting a tin trophy. Free will aside the worst thing for safety would be rigid 'if-then' post collision rules. If you can't handle a little bit of the unknown perhaps soaring isn't the right sport for you. |
#75
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Parowan midair?
On Jun 21, 3:27*pm, Mike Schumann
wrote: snip FLARM is useless unless everyone is equipped. * So surely is ADS-B? |
#76
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Parowan midair?
On Jun 21, 7:27*am, Mike Schumann
wrote: On 6/20/2010 8:23 PM, Andreas Maurer wrote: On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:46:15 -0400, Mike Schumann *wrote: We don't need FLARM, we need MITRE's low cost ADS-B transceiver. *The SSA needs to send a letter to Randy Babbitt using this accident as an example of why we need a green light to get this unit certified ASAP. Mike, believe me: If you have ever flown half a year with FLARM with lots of gliders around (e.g contest), you are going to want one NOW *- and you are not going to have the patience to wait for the better solution that it possibly available in 2012. FLARM isnt't going to solve all of the problems, but I am pretty sure that it would have prevented the incident we are talking about. Andreas FLARM is useless unless everyone is equipped. *That is NOT going to happen in the US. *Low cost ADS-B could be available tomorrow if the FAA would certify the units. *NAVWORX and MITRE have working prototypes that could go into production overnight if we can get the FAA to get off their but. We need to get people to send letters to Randy Babbitt to get some top level attention to this. *It also wouldn't hurt to copy Craig Fuller at AOPA. *They should be pushing this a LOT more agresively than they have.. -- Mike Schumann An extremely bad outcome of wanting "ADS-B technology" to be deployed widely would be to end up with a need to mandatory equip with ADS-B with none of the FLARM-equivalent glider-tuned traffic warnings produced by the ADS-B receivers, no-compatibility with TCAS in fast jets and airlines etc. and significant areas where there is no GBT coverage to provide ADS-R (e.g. for glider on glider traffic awareness on mountain ridges where there may be a mix of UAT and 1090ES ADS-B equipped gliders). This is all extremely early technology, I hope actions by the SSA and others does not end up heading towards mandatory ADS-B carriage without these and other issues being addressed. By all means go work on testing and R&D stuff, but this stuff is far away from being wide scale deployable in gliders that it is premature to suggest ADS-B as a solution to practical real world problems like what happened at Parowan. And I do not feel that overly-involving the federal government in an attempt to get technology adopted in gliders is a good idea. The free market should be quite capable of delivering innovative ADS-B based technology to our cockpits, as has been done by FLARM (in Europe and elsewhere) and PCAS manufacturers. Darryl |
#77
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Parowan midair?
On Jun 21, 8:41*am, Bob 7U wrote:
I suppose the term 'low cost' is relative and depends upon whether you compare it to the cost of your sailplane or your life. Bob 7U We have this exact same discussion on the rock climbing forums. The corollary here is, how about all those $0.15 nuts and bolts in your sailplane? Isn't your life worth more than that? Why aren't you using $100, or better yet $1000 nuts and bolts custom manufactured and individually tested and certified to the most stringent certification standards? Thanks, Bob K. |
#78
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Parowan midair?
On Jun 21, 2:10*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Jun 21, 8:41*am, Bob 7U wrote: I suppose the term 'low cost' is relative and depends upon whether you compare it to the cost of your sailplane or your life. Bob 7U We have this exact same discussion on the rock climbing forums. The corollary here is, how about all those $0.15 nuts and *bolts in your sailplane? Isn't your life worth more than that? Why aren't you using $100, or better yet $1000 nuts and bolts custom manufactured and individually tested and certified to the most stringent certification standards? Thanks, Bob K. not to mention trusting your life to some crazy guy who built a glider in his garage... |
#79
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Parowan midair?
not to mention trusting your life to some crazy guy who built a glider
in his garage... Now that was funny! I'm sure Bob will come back with a nice, sharp response. Back to the serious aspect of this discussion. I just don't see this as "black or white" as most others do. If I were involved in a collision, I'd be so puckered up the damaged ship would probably be safer than my skill, which would be seriously degraded by stress. I guess I'd be looking to put it down as soon as possible with my hand not far from the canopy eject handle the entire time. That's mostly because I'm a low-timer and conservative by nature. I'm sure that a cooler head in this type of situation comes with experience. Who am I to judge someone way more experienced than me flying in this circumstance. Over hostile terrain no less. I'm glad no one was hurt. Dave |
#80
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Parowan midair?
On Jun 21, 12:28*pm, Tony wrote:
On Jun 21, 2:10*pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote: On Jun 21, 8:41*am, Bob 7U wrote: I suppose the term 'low cost' is relative and depends upon whether you compare it to the cost of your sailplane or your life. Bob 7U We have this exact same discussion on the rock climbing forums. The corollary here is, how about all those $0.15 nuts and *bolts in your sailplane? Isn't your life worth more than that? Why aren't you using $100, or better yet $1000 nuts and bolts custom manufactured and individually tested and certified to the most stringent certification standards? Thanks, Bob K. not to mention trusting your life to some crazy guy who built a glider in his garage... hey, I resemble that remark! |
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