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Buying a Glider



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 6th 19, 11:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Kuykendall
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Default Buying a Glider

On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 7:23:36 AM UTC-7, wrote:

One prejudice could be that an experimental glider should not be used by commercial operators...


That's not prejudice, that's the law spelled out in 14CFR. Aircraft without standard airworthiness certificates can be used for commercial operations only under certain narrowly-defined circumstances.

...or club training/casual use.


That's a bit murkier. Depending on the structure of the club, it may be possible to make experimental aircraft available for club member use. But it's usually not worth the trouble.

--Bob K.
  #22  
Old May 7th 19, 12:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Buying a Glider

"That's not prejudice,"
Yep, poor choice of word. I was tired that night.
  #23  
Old May 7th 19, 12:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Buying a Glider

Commercial operators can offer a single-seat ship for rent when it has a Special - experimental exhibition & racing A/W cert...
  #24  
Old May 7th 19, 12:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Buying a Glider

On Monday, May 6, 2019 at 7:21:20 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Commercial operators can offer a single-seat ship for rent when it has a Special - experimental exhibition & racing A/W cert...


I just looked at the limitations on one of my ships. It expressly refers to 91.319 with respect to purposes of operation.
91.319(e) specifically does not allow use for compensation or hire.
FWIW
UH
  #25  
Old May 7th 19, 02:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
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Default Buying a Glider

It’s pretty common to have experimental gliders in a club. They’re not put out for compensation or hire but owned by the club members with shared expenses.
  #26  
Old May 7th 19, 02:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Buying a Glider

Common, doesn't make it right.
Are they submitting program letters?
  #27  
Old May 7th 19, 03:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
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Default Buying a Glider

Correct me if I am wrong but not all experimental gliders need program letters. Guess I’ll find out I am going to be buying my first experimental glider this weekend.

Basic common sense tells me that it would be OK for a club to own a single seat experimental glider and fly it. They’re not letting it out to the public. What would the difference be between a club and a consortium of say 4 pilots owning and flying one?
  #28  
Old May 7th 19, 03:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Longley
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Default Buying a Glider

So you’re saying that all experimental gliders need program letters? I didn’t see any mention of a program letter in the glider I am buying.

I don’t know the answer if any particular club is submitting a program letter. Whenever I do a condition inspection and notice one in the files I remind the owner to submit their yearly letter.
  #29  
Old May 7th 19, 04:03 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS[_5_]
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Default Buying a Glider

On Monday, May 6, 2019 at 7:30:09 PM UTC-7, Charles Longley wrote:
So you’re saying that all experimental gliders need program letters? I didn’t see any mention of a program letter in the glider I am buying.


That depands on how the original operating limitations and program letter were written.
Some have just a few paragraphs and just one program letter. DO NOT let the registration expire on that one.
Some (mostly newer) have several pages of limitations and the requirement of an annual program letter.
If an FSDO is specified in the original and that FSDO is no longer operational, or if the aircraft is moved away from that FSDO's jurisdiction you may have to redo the paperwork. Again, depends on the wording.
But in my experience, it's more difficult to fix the bad title on a glider trailer than comply with the details of an EXP registration.
Jim
  #30  
Old May 7th 19, 01:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Buying a Glider

On Monday, May 6, 2019 at 10:30:09 PM UTC-4, Charles Longley wrote:
So you’re saying that all experimental gliders need program letters? I didn’t see any mention of a program letter in the glider I am buying.

I don’t know the answer if any particular club is submitting a program letter. Whenever I do a condition inspection and notice one in the files I remind the owner to submit their yearly letter.


I don't recall exactly when the requirement for program letters was added to the operations limitations for Experimental exhibition and air racing category gliders, but it was more than 15 years ago.
When moving to a new operating area, sending a program letter to notify the cognizant FSDO of the change of base will normally suffice.
Some limitations may require issuance of new operating limitations. This is fairly rare has gone away in more recent times with standardization.
Older ships may have no such requirement. Don't lose those operating limitations because you will then have to get new ones to later standards.
Unless otherwise stated in the docs, duration is unlimited.
Change in N number triggers all new stuff when new airworthiness certificate is issued.
The key thing is to review the operating limitations that are part of the airworthiness certificate and comply.
It isn't all that hard but I still find ships that don't have correct paperwork.
UH
 




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