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#1
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Money grubbing FBO's
what has happened? I have been seeing multiple FBO's charging for
using the ramp from 10 to 25 bucks to park per day also RIPPING me off for fuel. Charging almost 4.50++ a gallon for AVGAS. PLUS county flowage tax! I now tanker my gas auto gas ($ 2.30 gal) screw them with the RIPPOFF charges!! The new long range O & N tank will PAY for itself in 100 hrs!!!! When they ask if I need fuel with JOY!!!!!!!! i tell them NO! It's not my fault that they screwed themselves with a ****TY lease from the local county! One FBO charges about 4.75+ per gallon PLUS $ 20 to park each day told me that the County gets 30 % of thier GROSS revenue, PLUS a base RENT! The COUNTY thru the FBO gets 10 bucks to park! Only a FOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL would enter into that lease! I have been told that if an airport takes ANY $$$$ from the Federal Gov't for airport improvements that they cannot stop me from filling MY tanks with auto gas on the ramp. Is this true?? Comments??? |
#2
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Money grubbing FBO's
wise purchaser wrote: I have been told that if an airport takes ANY $$$$ from the Federal Gov't for airport improvements that they cannot stop me from filling MY tanks with auto gas on the ramp. Is this true?? A few passages from todays Beech List, also talking about this same issue. According to AC150-5190-8c, that's true, but they can require you to adhere to the local safety rules. From AC150-5109: 2. Restrictions on Self-Service. An aircraft owner or operator may tie down, adjust, repair, refuel, clean, and otherwise service his/her own aircraft, provided the service is performed by the aircraft owner/operator or his/her employees with resources supplied by the aircraft owner or operator. Moreover, the service must be conducted in accordance with reasonable rules, regulations or standards established by the airport sponsor. Any unreasonable restriction imposed on the owners or operators of aircraft regarding the servicing of their own aircraft may be construed as an exclusive rights violation. In accordance with the FAA grant assurances: (1) An airport sponsor may not prevent an owner or operator of an aircraft from performing services on his/her own aircraft with his/her own employees and equipment. Restrictions imposed by an airport sponsor that have the effect of channeling self- service activities to a commercial aeronautical service provider may be an exclusive rights violation. (2) An airport sponsor must reasonably provide for self-servicing activity but is not obligated to lease airport facilities and land for such activity. That is, the airport sponsor is not required to encumber the airport with leases and facilities for self-servicing activity, and (3) An airport sponsor is under no obligation to permit aircraft owners or operators to introduce equipment, personnel, or practices on the airport that would be unsafe, unsightly, or detrimental to the public welfare or that would affect the efficient use of airport facilities by the public. Furthermo o. Self-Fueling and Self-Service. Self-fueling means the fueling or servicing of an aircraft (i.e. changing the oil, washing) by the owner of the aircraft with his or her own employees and using his or her own equipment. Self-fueling and other self-services cannot be contracted out to another party. Self-fueling implies using fuel obtained by the aircraft owner from the source of his/her preference. As one of many self-service activities that can be conducted by the aircraft owner or operator by his or her own employees using his or her own equipment, self-fueling, differs from using a self-service fueling pump made available by the airport, an FBO or an aeronautical service provider. The use of a self-service fueling pump is a commercial activity and is not considered self-fueling as defined herein 9 AC 150/5190-6 1/4/2007 and can be subject to minimum standards. In addition to self-fueling, other self-service activities that can be performed by the aircraft owner with his or her own employees includes activities such as maintaining, repairing, cleaning, and otherwise providing service to an aircraft, provided the service is performed by the aircraft owner or his/her employees with resources supplied by the aircraft owner. Title 14 CFR Part 43 permits the holder of a pilot certificate to perform specific types of preventative maintenance on any aircraft owned or operated by the pilot. |
#3
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Money grubbing FBO's
A few questions below:
From AC150-5109: 2. Restrictions on Self-Service. An aircraft owner or operator may tie down, adjust, repair, refuel, clean, and otherwise service his/her own aircraft, provided the service is performed by the aircraft owner/operator or his/her employees with resources supplied by the aircraft owner or operator. Does the above mean that an outside mechanic that I hire could be construed as an "employee" and do a ramp annual at my govt. funded airport? Moreover, the service must be conducted in accordance with reasonable rules, regulations or standards established by the airport sponsor. Any unreasonable restriction imposed on the owners or operators of aircraft regarding the servicing of their own aircraft may be construed as an exclusive rights violation. In accordance with the FAA grant assurances: (1) An airport sponsor may not prevent an owner or operator of an aircraft from performing services on his/her own aircraft with his/her own employees and equipment. Restrictions imposed by an airport sponsor that have the effect of channeling self- service activities to a commercial aeronautical service provider may be an exclusive rights violation. Does the above mean that our current airport lease that has ridiculous funding requirements for outside mechanics ($25,000 in working capital being one of them) is an exclusive rights violation? (2) An airport sponsor must reasonably provide for self-servicing activity but is not obligated to lease airport facilities and land for such activity. That is, the airport sponsor is not required to encumber the airport with leases and facilities for self-servicing activity, and (3) An airport sponsor is under no obligation to permit aircraft owners or operators to introduce equipment, personnel, or practices on the airport that would be unsafe, unsightly, or detrimental to the public welfare or that would affect the efficient use of airport facilities by the public. Does the above allow the airport the sole discretion to prohibit using the "Mighty Grape" for on field fueling because they deem the thing unsightly? Furthermo o. Self-Fueling and Self-Service. Self-fueling means the fueling or servicing of an aircraft (i.e. changing the oil, washing) by the owner of the aircraft with his or her own employees and using his or her own equipment. Self-fueling and other self-services cannot be contracted out to another party. Does the above tend to conflict with itself. I can use an "employee" but cannot "contract out". Are we splitting an IRS hair on this point? Have fun at your airport. Mike |
#4
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Money grubbing FBO's
I have been told that if an airport takes ANY $$$$ from the Federal
Gov't for airport improvements that they cannot stop me from filling MY tanks with auto gas on the ramp. Is this true?? Yes, as long as you don't violate any established safety procedures. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#5
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Money grubbing FBO's
What Jay said.
In addition, if your airport receives fed money, you are allowed to do maintenance in your tie down, etc. as long as it doesn't violate safety procedures. "Jay Honeck" wrote in message oups.com... I have been told that if an airport takes ANY $$$$ from the Federal Gov't for airport improvements that they cannot stop me from filling MY tanks with auto gas on the ramp. Is this true?? Yes, as long as you don't violate any established safety procedures. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#6
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Money grubbing FBO's
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 09:54:19 -0500, tom418 wrote:
In addition, if your airport receives fed money, you are allowed to do maintenance in your tie down, etc. as long as it doesn't violate safety procedures. Have you a reference for that? This would be terrific news indeed for a field where our club has some planes based. - Andrew |
#7
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Money grubbing FBO's
Andrew Gideon wrote:
In addition, if your airport receives fed money, you are allowed to do maintenance in your tie down, etc. as long as it doesn't violate safety procedures. Have you a reference for that? This would be terrific news indeed for a field where our club has some planes based. These are part of the standard grant assurances that are agreed to when an airport accepts funds from the Airport Improvement Program. AOPA has a .pdf document that covers this : http://www.aopa.org/asn/airport_compliance.pdf See page 48 under assurance #22 (Economic Nondiscrimination). It reads in part : "It will not exercise or grant any right or privilege which operates to prevent any person, firm, or corporation operating aircraft on the airport; from performing any services on its own aircraft with its own employees (including, but not limited to maintenance, repair, and fueling) that it may choose to perform." John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) -- Message posted via AviationKB.com http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200704/1 |
#8
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Money grubbing FBO's
"JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote in message news:7038669109b67@uwe... Andrew Gideon wrote: In addition, if your airport receives fed money, you are allowed to do maintenance in your tie down, etc. as long as it doesn't violate safety procedures. Have you a reference for that? This would be terrific news indeed for a field where our club has some planes based. These are part of the standard grant assurances that are agreed to when an airport accepts funds from the Airport Improvement Program. AOPA has a document that covers this : http://www.aopa.org/asn/airport_compliance.pdf See page 48 under assurance #22 (Economic Nondiscrimination). It reads in part : "It will not exercise or grant any right or privilege which operates to prevent any person, firm, or corporation operating aircraft on the airport; from performing any services on its own aircraft with its own employees (including, but not limited to maintenance, repair, and fueling) that it may choose to perform." I wonder if refilling oxygen tanks would come under that provision? |
#9
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Money grubbing FBO's
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:54:33 +0000, JGalban via AviationKB.com wrote:
"It will not exercise or grant any right or privilege which operates to prevent any person, firm, or corporation operating aircraft on the airport; from performing any services on its own aircraft with its own employees (including, but not limited to maintenance, repair, and fueling) that it may choose to perform." Thanks, but this isn't as helpful as I'd hoped. We don't employ A&P/IAs. We contract with outside firms for those services. Since the mechanics are not our employees, this means that they can be excluded by the airport owner/manager. Am I missing something? - Andrew |
#10
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Money grubbing FBO's
" I now tanker my gas auto gas ($ 2.30 gal) screw them with the RIPPOFF charges!! TROLL |
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