Flaps on take-off and landing

Stubby wrote:


Jim Macklin wrote:
...

You can also use the flaps to "jump over" a fence or ditch that you
see at the last moment before a forced landing if they are up for the
glide.

...
Yes and that's one lesson I'll never forget. The instructor had me do a
power-off "short approach" and told me I was *not* allowed to apply
power no matter how bad I thought it was! The pucker factor increased
enormously and I could see the edge of the hill under the runway
looming. Certain that we were going to crash into it, I was begging to
add power. The instructor calmly demonstrated how to use flaps just to
get a few more feet and complete the landing. It was a good lesson but
I think he owes me some new underwear.
That is why I like to plan just a little high and slip the last couple
of feet for the runway. During my commerical check ride I was coming up
a little short on a similated engine out and pointed the nose down to
gain airspeed. Work just find and landed right on the numbers. The
examiner said that was great. I passed the check ride.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

The term "solo stick time" comes to mind here :-))

If you're not any good, is that a dead stick landing?

Jose
--
There are more ways to skin a cat than there are cats.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jim Macklin wrote
Flap extension reduces the stalling speed, often only a few
knots, but lift increases as does drag. The airplane will
balloon and slow very fast, the extra distance and altitude
gained is only a few feet, but if all you need is to clear a
5 foot cattle fence or a 10 foot wide ditch, that is a
technique that is useful.

Can't create energy out of thin air Jim. You would clear the
same 5 foot fence just by increasing the angle of attack and
in both cases, glide a shorter distance if you were at best
L/D to start with.

Bob Moore

Peter R. wrote:
Ron Natalie wrote:

BULL****. 20G33 was good student solo weather in Colorado where I
learned. We regularly took the Cardinal RG's out in these conditions.

It was my interpretation of Tom's post that the Cardinal will not fly
*prematurely* when taxiing in those wind conditions.

--
Peter

He'd said "halfway through the rollout" it would lift off. If he
still had 30 knots GS and a 30 knot gust, that would easily lift it off
with flap in ground effect.

Dan

Jim Macklin wrote:
But the flaps move the center of lift aft on the wing and
you need back elevator pressure to force the main gear
(trike) or tailwheel on the ground to prevent weather vaning
and skidding the wheels under braking. The flaps will tend
to lift the lift the tail and you need to follow through on
the flare to lever the balance point on the main gear.

Airplanes like the 150, 172 and 182 will pitch up on flap
application. The downwash off the flaps stikes the stab and pushes the
tail down. A 185 or Glastar will pitch down; I suppose the lower
position of the stab has something to do with it.

I once owned an Auster AOP 6. It had no pitch change with
flap application, and those flaps were serious big Zap flaps. The
elevator had two trim tabs: one was the usual manually-operated tab,
and the other was connected to the flap mechanism to zero out any pitch
changes when the flaps were raised or lowered. That old airplane would
land in 200' (half of book figures) if an approach was made at 1.1 Vso
and the Johnson-bar flaps were suddenly raised just before the wheels
hit the grass. Why did we need to put electric flaps in small
airplanes? Same technique works in the 185.
The Auster's brakes, on the other hand, were less than
enthusiastic, so one could clamp them on before touchdown and really
get ahead of the game.
Not that I'm recommending that Auster owners go try it...

Dan

Jim Macklin wrote:
On dry ground the H295 would take-off in as little as two
airplane lengths. The factory had a grass strip next to the
assembly building. They would land and take-off day in and
out, from the 300 feet of grass, even with straight EDO
floats.



Jungle Aviation and Radio Service has their own field in Waxhaw, NC called
JAARS-Townsend. I used to go over there just to watch the Helio Courier pilots
do their stuff. It was absolutely amazing.

They'd stand on the brakes, go to full power, pop the tail up in one length, and
be airborne in another. I suspect you could sprint alongside it and keep up for
a few seconds.

The Helio didn't just climb out of impossibly short strips... it had six seats
and could carry a load.

JAARS is a missionary outfit, if anybody wonders. They used to have missions in
New Guinea and down in South America... don't know about now. They also
operated DC-3s and some other birds (can't remember now).




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
I lower the flaps for the preflight inspection so that I
can properly inspect the flap mechanisms, but then retract them after
engine
start and before taxiing.

Doesn't flap movement require engine power?

Since I extend them prior to engine start in that case, obviously not.

The idea is to try to approach real life. Additionally, many things
are simulated. If adjusting flaps has a bad effect in real life,
there's a good chance that it has a bad effect in simulation as well.

But if there is a bad effect in simulation as well, you live to tell about
it and you get a brand-spanking-new airplane to try it again. If "a bad
effect in simulation" is your concern, why not just try it in the simulation
and see what happens?

The bottom line here is that there are no hard and fast rules for what
you're asking. Do what you want.

Pete

Ross Richardson wrote:

During my commerical check ride I was coming up
a little short on a similated engine out and pointed the nose down to
gain airspeed. Work just find and landed right on the numbers.

I'm guessing that you were below best glide speed at the time?

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

The idea is to try to approach real life.

Why?

You've stated you don't want to experience real flight, so what's the point?

Just have a good time.

"Jose" wrote in message
m...
The term "solo stick time" comes to mind here :-))

If you're not any good, is that a dead stick landing?

Jose

Is it a rainy day where you are Jose? Its lousy here. My wife is convinced
that these "intellitecual exchanges" we get into on RAP only happen when
we're not flying and all of us are sitting around bored to tears. I'd be
interested in what Margy Natalie thinks about this :-)
Personally, since I'm retired and don't fly much any more , I think this
shoots all kinds of holes in my wife's theory. The truth is that pilots are
most likely and collectively natural born punsters. Maybe Shakespeare was
right!!!
:-))
Dudley Henriques