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#1
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SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data
Does anyone have any experience driving SeeYouMobile from an SN10B,
using both the GPS data and the vario/wind/air data that the SN10 can now transmit to a PDA? Wondering if it is worth the trouble to have a new SN10 wiring harness made to work with my PDA. TIA, Kirk 66 |
#2
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SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data
Why would you want a PDA when you have an SN10? This moving map
business is over rated and puts your eyes inside the cockpit. All I want and need, is the heading and distance to the turn-point and the same to the nearest landable point. The SN10 gives me that in a quick glance then my head is back outside where it belongs. Lots of good stuff going on out there, besides not running into someone. Is the other guy outclimbing me? If he is, I'd better move my circle over a tad. Hey, there's a red tail over there.......lets join him. Hmmmm, the ripples on the water indicate a north wind, that smoke from the rice stubble indicates a west wind.........bet there's a shear around here somewhere. I keep my eyes where they belong. :) JJ You done good on the SN10 wind program, Dave. kirk.stant wrote: Does anyone have any experience driving SeeYouMobile from an SN10B, using both the GPS data and the vario/wind/air data that the SN10 can now transmit to a PDA? Wondering if it is worth the trouble to have a new SN10 wiring harness made to work with my PDA. TIA, Kirk 66 |
#3
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SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data
If you flew your glider in South East England, where airspace is
unbelievably complex, you would want a moving map showing controlled airspace. From any significant height the Mark I eyeball cannot tell you within two or three miles where you are relative to airspace which does not follow ground features. At 12:48 28 October 2008, JJ Sinclair wrote: Why would you want a PDA when you have an SN10? This moving map business is over rated and puts your eyes inside the cockpit. All I want and need, is the heading and distance to the turn-point and the same to the nearest landable point. The SN10 gives me that in a quick glance then my head is back outside where it belongs. Lots of good stuff going on out there, besides not running into someone. Is the other guy outclimbing me? If he is, I'd better move my circle over a tad. Hey, there's a red tail over there.......lets join him. Hmmmm, the ripples on the water indicate a north wind, that smoke from the rice stubble indicates a west wind.........bet there's a shear around here somewhere. I keep my eyes where they belong. :) JJ You done good on the SN10 wind program, Dave. kirk.stant wrote: Does anyone have any experience driving SeeYouMobile from an SN10B, using both the GPS data and the vario/wind/air data that the SN10 can now transmit to a PDA? Wondering if it is worth the trouble to have a new SN10 wiring harness made to work with my PDA. TIA, Kirk 66 |
#4
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SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data
On Oct 28, 8:48*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
Why *would you want a PDA when you have an SN10? This moving map business is over rated and puts your eyes inside the cockpit. All I want and need, is the heading and distance to the turn-point and the same to the nearest landable point. The SN10 gives me that in a quick glance then my head is back outside where it belongs. Lots of good stuff going on out there, besides not running into someone. Is the other guy outclimbing me? If he is, I'd better move my circle over a tad. Hey, there's a red tail over there.......lets join him. Hmmmm, the ripples on the water indicate a north wind, that smoke from the rice stubble indicates a west wind.........bet there's a shear around here somewhere. I keep my eyes where they belong. :) JJ You done good on the SN10 wind program, Dave. No, one glance at the moving map takes the same amount of time as looking at the SN10 to get the same info. Maybe less time. Todd Smith 3S |
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SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data
On Oct 28, 7:48*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
Why *would you want a PDA when you have an SN10? Sorry, JJ, have to disagree with you on this one, big time. Do you fly with a sectional? How much time does it take heads down to find a suitable airport while scratching down low at some new contest location? The SN10s moving map is too basic, and can require too much knob twisting to get to the information desired. I use my SN10 for what it is best at - racing data, accurate winds, final glides, thermal inforation, vario. The moving map is my backup if my PDA croaks. I use my PDA as a digital sectional, with the task drawn on, and all landable fields inrange highlighted, and some data displayed that is not available from the SN10. And it only takes a glance to use, instead of trying to fish out the sectional, unfold it, find out you have the wrong side, the proceed to thermal IMC with a cockpit full of paper! No thanks! BTDT! I do agree that the trick is to only go heads down and use the magic when necessary - but heck, that includes fancy varios and even the airspeed indicator! But I'm sure you used to preach that to your students when you were and IP, just as I did as an IWSO, back when we flew diesel jets with steam-powered radars.... Plus, if all the newbies have fancy PDAs in their cockpits, it makes it easier for us old clowns to pass them while they are heads down playing with their toys! Cheers! Kirk 66 |
#6
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SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data
I use the 'options' page on my SN10, keep it set on the nearest
landable field (and next nearest landable). What it tells me is exactly what I need to know, distance and altitude needed to get there. No need to be looking at a sectional. When I ask the local PDA drivers, simple questions like; how long you been on course or what's your speed so far.................their stumpen dor an answer! Guess what I should be asking is; What are you looking for in a PDA that isn't already on your SN10? JJ kirk.stant wrote: On Oct 28, 7:48�am, JJ Sinclair wrote: Why �would you want a PDA when you have an SN10? Sorry, JJ, have to disagree with you on this one, big time. Do you fly with a sectional? How much time does it take heads down to find a suitable airport while scratching down low at some new contest location? The SN10s moving map is too basic, and can require too much knob twisting to get to the information desired. I use my SN10 for what it is best at - racing data, accurate winds, final glides, thermal inforation, vario. The moving map is my backup if my PDA croaks. I use my PDA as a digital sectional, with the task drawn on, and all landable fields inrange highlighted, and some data displayed that is not available from the SN10. And it only takes a glance to use, instead of trying to fish out the sectional, unfold it, find out you have the wrong side, the proceed to thermal IMC with a cockpit full of paper! No thanks! BTDT! I do agree that the trick is to only go heads down and use the magic when necessary - but heck, that includes fancy varios and even the airspeed indicator! But I'm sure you used to preach that to your students when you were and IP, just as I did as an IWSO, back when we flew diesel jets with steam-powered radars.... Plus, if all the newbies have fancy PDAs in their cockpits, it makes it easier for us old clowns to pass them while they are heads down playing with their toys! Cheers! Kirk 66 |
#7
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SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data
JJ Sinclair wrote:
I use the 'options' page on my SN10, keep it set on the nearest landable field (and next nearest landable). What it tells me is exactly what I need to know, distance and altitude needed to get there. No need to be looking at a sectional. Stick with the SN10 if you are flying a familiar area. But, if you fly like I do in *UNfamiliar* areas about half the time each year, the extra information I get with a PDA and SeeYou Mobile is invaluable. I'm picking out my course as I go (love the OLC!), so "situational awareness" is my prime need. When I ask the local PDA drivers, simple questions like; how long you been on course or what's your speed so far.................their stumpen dor an answer! Guess what I should be asking is; What are you looking for in a PDA that isn't already on your SN10? I rarely fly tasks, so knowing instantly how long I've been on course (course? I don't need no stinking course!) has no value (two button clicks and I can read, however). I just fly in one direction until I realize I might not make it back, then I turn around. And speed? I just fly as fast as I can without getting into trouble. I don't need to know what the speed is. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly * Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4 * New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org |
#8
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SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data
On Oct 28, 4:01*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
JJ Sinclair wrote: I use the 'options' page on my SN10, keep it set on the nearest landable field (and next nearest landable). What it tells me is exactly what I need to know, distance and altitude needed to get there. No need to be looking at a sectional. Stick with the SN10 if you are flying a familiar area. But, if you fly like I do in *UNfamiliar* areas about half the time each year, the extra information I get with a PDA and SeeYou Mobile is invaluable. I'm picking out my course as I go (love the OLC!), so "situational awareness" is my prime need. When I ask the local PDA drivers, simple questions like; how long you been on course or what's your speed so far.................their stumpen dor an answer! Guess what I should be asking is; What are you looking for in a PDA that isn't already on your SN10? I rarely fly tasks, so knowing instantly how long I've been on course (course? I don't need no stinking course!) has no value (two button clicks and I can read, however). I just fly in one direction until I realize I might not make it back, then I turn around. And speed? I just fly as fast as I can without getting into trouble. I don't need to know what the speed is. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly * Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes"http://tinyurl.com/y739x4 * * * New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org And you don't need to worry about landout options because you fly one of those noisy !@#$ motorgliders. (just channeling JJ). The biggest problem with PDAs IMHO is lack of daylight visibility. In my mid-40's its a real issue. At JJ's age... ah stick with the SN10. I'm addicted to the capabilities of SeeYou Mobile. Folks who like the SN-10 really seem to love it, but I've had frustrating experience with SN-10 in rental gliders like the trying to edit an active task - all driven by completely not knowing what I was doing. The ability to bring my "world" with me all loaded up on a PDA in my own glider or in a rental glider is a big plus. The inability to take the SN-10 home and play with it and get it all configured etc. was an issue for me, and I pulled one out of a glider I purchased. Anyhow as usual style nobody has helped Kirk out... but are you sure that SeeYou Mobile supports the SN10 wind calculations? My (sketchy) understanding is that the SN10 can speak extended sentences with calculated wind data but I'm not sure SeeYou Mobile will do anything with that. I don't think the SN10 transmits TAS data that SeeYou Mobile would use to improve it's own internal wind calculations. That's at least how it works with the Cambridge 302 (SeeYou Mobile does a great job enhancing the wind calculations with the C-302 TAS data but ignores the wind calculations from the C-302). But if the SN-10 is not transmitting TAS data maybe SeeYou does use the SN-10 wind. Paging Dave Nadler... I expect (hope?) the Naviter guys would primarily want to do their own wind calculations using TAS data from external devices. This should give end-users better consistency across data sources and leave them as developers a bit more in of their own application. The only exception might be in flight computer like the LX-7007 that can leverage a magnetometer for wind calculations. I have no idea what they do there. The user forums at Naviter may be a better place to get help. Regards Darryl |
#9
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SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data
Anyhow as usual style nobody has helped Kirk out...
Thanks for putting it back on track. I expect (hope?) the Naviter guys would primarily want to do their own wind Correct. We all know that the wind in SN-10 is great. But there is no reason to duplicate this wind on SeeYou Mobile if you already have it on the SN-10 conveniently. We try to do our own thing from available data. AFAIK true or indicated airspeed is not available in SN-10 NMEA output which means we can't compute the wind in straight flight when connected to the SN-10. Knowing the limitations of your gear it may still be beneficial to be able to compare two completely different methods of computing the wind in a thermal for example. Back to the original question: Wondering if it is worth the trouble to have a new SN10 wiring harness made to work with my PDA. Due to the lack of TAS/IAS in SN-10's NMEA the only benefit is the vario data that comes from the SN-10. This data will give you better Thermal Vario (VarT) and much better Thermal Assistant analysis if you use these two features. If you don't there little or no benefit compared to being connected to the Volkslogger (assuming that you connect SeeYou Mobile to VL at present). The user forums at Naviter may be a better place to get help. True. Posting there helps other pilots answer their own questions while we are away flying. Andrej |
#10
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SeeYou Mobile with SN10B data
On Oct 29, 12:54*am, Andrej Kolar wrote:
Anyhow as usual style nobody has helped Kirk out... Knowing the limitations of your gear it may still be beneficial to be able to compare two completely different methods of computing the wind in a thermal for example. I find this comparison quite beneficial - particularly on final glides were a "second opinion" on required altitude gives me some comfort that I am on track. I personally use a 302 with WinPilot and an LX-7000 so I have two redundant systems with only the battery wiring as a common failure mode. Normally I use WinPilot for task management (except for a custom Glideplan map with all the turnpoints overlaid promenently for use in picking MAT turnpoints so I can minimize screen- poking time). The LX I use for a live list of the closest landable spots (here I wish I could sort by arrival altitude rather than distance because distance alone is an insufficient metric for alternates in the mountains and I find myself comparing coser-in alternates to find the one with the biggest margin - can you say Hurricane Mesa?). On final glides I compare both instruments to ensure against differences in wind calculations, or operator error. I occasionally find a mis-set McCready value or wing loading this way. I think the LX 5000/7000 series also pass TAS like the 302 - not that it would help in Kirk's situation. 9B |
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