Which plane for 5 small pax?

"Newps" wrote in message
news

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:0pRSc.137433$eM2.73403@attbi_s51...

Is it actually unsafe to have two people sitting side-by-side and sharing

a

seat belt, if their combined weight is within the belt's design limit? (I
don't know; just asking.)

It's not legal unless the airplane is designed for that.

What regulation does it violate?

I recently asked the Boston FSDO if seatbelt sharing is legal, and they said
yes. They cited an interpretation from May 8, 1972 from the Acting Associate
General Counsel of the Regulations and Codification Division: "...as long as
approved safety belts are carried aboard the aircraft for all occupants, and
the structural strength requirements for the seats are not exceeded, the
seating of two persons whose combined weights does not exceed 170 pounds
under one safety belt where the belt can be properly secured around both
persons would not be a violation of the regulations for an operation under
Part 91."

--Gary

"Cy Galley" wrote in message
news:soUSc.138373$eM2.57714@attbi_s51...
(b) Each forward-facing or aft-facing seat/restraint system in normal,
utility, or acrobatic category airplanes must consist of a seat, a safety
belt, and a shoulder harness, with a metal-to-metal latching device, that
are designed to provide the occupant protection provisions required in
§23.562.

Sounds like you need a safety belt for each seat and the word occupant is
singular.

I think that parses as "the occupant-protection provisions", referring to a
generic occupant.

(See my reply to Newps in this thread for the legal opinion cited by the
Boston FSDO.)

--Gary



--
Cy Galley
Safety Programs Editor
EAA Sport Pilot

"Newps" wrote in message
...

No idea as I never researched it that far. However this is one of the
most brought up topics on the Cessna Pilots Assoc website, usually
somebody with a 172 or 182 that wants to put three kids in the back seat.
The answer is you cannot legally put two people in one seat belt or use
some kind of belt extender to put three people under a combination of two
belts.

Ok, but that's not the FSDO's answer.

--Gary

You have to remember that once certified, it is legal. My Bellanca 1948
14-13-2 has only one belt for the back seat. I'd be willing to bet that a
new Viking has 4 seats with four belts and harnesses.

You have changed all the friction ends to metal to metal, haven't you?
Believe this was done by AD. They probably could make everyone have a
shoulder harness if they want to push it.

--
Cy Galley
Safety Programs Editor
EAA Sport Pilot

"Rich S." wrote in message
...
"Cy Galley" wrote in message
news:soUSc.138373$eM2.57714@attbi_s51...
(b) Each forward-facing or aft-facing seat/restraint system in normal,
utility, or acrobatic category airplanes must consist of a seat, a
safety
belt, and a shoulder harness, with a metal-to-metal latching device,
that
are designed to provide the occupant protection provisions required in
§23.562.

Sounds like you need a safety belt for each seat and the word occupant
is
singular.

I don't know if the Pipers - which were certified with a single belt for
both occupants - were produced before, or after the change to "normal,
utility, or acrobatic category". I seem to remember flying a Taylorcraft
that had but a single belt, too - but I might be mistaken.

Rich S.

Newps wrote:



Ray Andraka wrote:

THere is a child seat STC for the 172 that puts a childs seat in the
baggage
compartment. Its a useless STC though, seeing a 172 is barely a four
place
aircraft as far as useful load goes.


It's not an STC but an option from Cessna. I had the third row seat
option when I bought my 182 and all it really is is a couple of pads and
a seat belt. I sold it shortly after I bought the plane.



I think it is more than that. Since I bought your seat, and tried to
have it installed, and was told by the A&P that it needed mounting
hardware which didn't come with your seat. I never was able to get it
installed and sold it with the airplane.


Matt

Gary Drescher wrote:

"Newps" wrote in message
...

No idea as I never researched it that far. However this is one of the
most brought up topics on the Cessna Pilots Assoc website, usually
somebody with a 172 or 182 that wants to put three kids in the back seat.
The answer is you cannot legally put two people in one seat belt or use
some kind of belt extender to put three people under a combination of two
belts.


Ok, but that's not the FSDO's answer.

--Gary



Which FSDO and what was there answer?


Matt

Gary Drescher wrote:

"Newps" wrote in message
...

No idea as I never researched it that far. However this is one of the
most brought up topics on the Cessna Pilots Assoc website, usually
somebody with a 172 or 182 that wants to put three kids in the back seat.
The answer is you cannot legally put two people in one seat belt or use
some kind of belt extender to put three people under a combination of two
belts.


Ok, but that's not the FSDO's answer.

--Gary



I'd also check your insurance policy. Nowadays, unfortunately,
insurance requirements are often more troublesome than the FARs. And
you really don't want to find your insurance void when you need it most.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Gary Drescher wrote:

"Newps" wrote in message
...

No idea as I never researched it that far. However this is one of the
most brought up topics on the Cessna Pilots Assoc website, usually
somebody with a 172 or 182 that wants to put three kids in the back seat.
The answer is you cannot legally put two people in one seat belt or use
some kind of belt extender to put three people under a combination of two
belts.


Ok, but that's not the FSDO's answer.

--Gary

Which FSDO and what was there answer?

See my immediately prior post in this thread.

--Gary

Someone metioned 'Rental' in one of the replies. Since I started flying
regularly I have decided I do not want to make a habit of taking my entire
family along on flights every weekend. It's suprising how many of my pilot
friends have a story about an engine failure followed by a forced landing.

On the rare occassions when I need to carry my entire family, I can rent a
Cherokee Six. The rest of the time it just me and a friend or two
travelling by Archer.

Regards,
Mike

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/amountainaero/fspic1.html
"Kyler Laird" wrote in message
...
"Jim Burns" writes:

If you plan on flying Part 91, there is no requirement for each passenger
to
have their own seatbelt.

Hmmm...I recently got a card for an STC to stick three people in
the back of my Aztec. I'm just Part 91 so I wonder what good the
STC would do?

--kyler

"Mike Noel" wrote in message
...
Someone metioned 'Rental' in one of the replies. Since I started flying
regularly I have decided I do not want to make a habit of taking my entire
family along on flights every weekend. It's suprising how many of my
pilot
friends have a story about an engine failure followed by a forced landing.


That was my thought when I posted. I should have explained more. I have
friends that bought larger aircraft only to realize that they usually fly
solo or with a single passenger. Buying small and renting big could be
money ahead.