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Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 28th 05, 03:05 AM
Gord Beaman
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Default Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:


"Stefan" wrote in message
...

If you read an understood the report, you know exactly what I meant. I
won't enter your game.


I read and understood the report. I have no idea what you meant, that's why
I asked.

I suspect that, although the controller made a mistake, Stefan
thinks that he wasn't to blame because he was so overloaded that
he couldn't be expected to handle the load without doing so.
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)
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  #12  
Old October 28th 05, 08:32 AM
Thomas Borchert
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Default Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?

Stefan,

If you read an understood the report, you know exactly what I meant.


Hmm. I don't quite get it either. What DO you mean?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #13  
Old October 28th 05, 09:24 AM
David Cartwright
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Default Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
. net...
If you read an understood the report, you know exactly what I meant. I
won't enter your game.

I read and understood the report. I have no idea what you meant, that's
why I asked.


I think the original poster perhaps chose the wrong words. While it can't be
denied that the controller made a mistake, this mistake was an
understandable one given the circumstances in which he found himself
(working multiple desks, with some equipment out of action, etc). It could
be said that he also made a mistake by accepting the workload when he came
on shift and had it handed to him, but I don't know enough about the
circumstances and/or the relationship between staff and management to
comment on that.

He was, however, not the only one who made a mistake. One realisation that
came from this accident, for instance, is that when TCAS and an ATC person
tell you two different things, you go with TCAS - which wasn't the case in
this incident as one pilot went with the ATC command. Similarly, it seems
that the ATC management were at fault by allowing a skeleton staff to run
such a crucial operation.

D.


  #14  
Old October 28th 05, 02:27 PM
Stefan
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Default Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

I read and understood the report. I have no idea what you meant, that's why
I asked.


Replace "mistake" by "is to blame" and read the posts of others who
obviously did understand what I've meant.

I've travelled a lot through countries which's languages I understood
barely or even not at all, but it was always possible to communicate if
both sides really wanted (albeit admittedly sometimes on a low level).
Of course it needed the good will of both sides, but it also does so if
both sides can speak the same language.

Stefan
  #15  
Old October 28th 05, 02:32 PM
Stefan
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Default Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?

Thomas Borchert wrote:

Hmm. I don't quite get it either. What DO you mean?


Sigh, ok. Replace "mistake" by "is to blame" and then you might
understand what I've meant.

If somebody is given a task which is impossible to accomplish, then who
is to blame? The one who failed or the one who gave him the task?

(Besides, the controller saw and corrected his mistake. Pretty late, but
still in time. Had there been no ACAS, then there wouldn't have been a
midair. So the controller didn't fail. And, before you ask: I don't
blame the russian pilots, either. I blame the one who is responsible
that they hadn't received adequate ACAS training.)

Stefan
  #16  
Old October 28th 05, 08:23 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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Default Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?


"Stefan" wrote in message
...

Replace "mistake" by "is to blame" and read the posts of others who
obviously did understand what I've meant.

I've travelled a lot through countries which's languages I understood
barely or even not at all, but it was always possible to communicate if
both sides really wanted (albeit admittedly sometimes on a low level). Of
course it needed the good will of both sides, but it also does so if both
sides can speak the same language.


If you really wanted to communicate you wouldn't have responded with "Read
the report."


  #17  
Old October 28th 05, 08:24 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?


"Stefan" wrote in message
...

Sigh, ok. Replace "mistake" by "is to blame" and then you might understand
what I've meant.

If somebody is given a task which is impossible to accomplish, then who is
to blame? The one who failed or the one who gave him the task?


The controller was not given a task that was impossible to accomplish.


  #18  
Old October 28th 05, 08:53 PM
Stefan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

If somebody is given a task which is impossible to accomplish, then who is
to blame? The one who failed or the one who gave him the task?


The controller was not given a task that was impossible to accomplish.


Why did you snip my next sentence?

Stefan
  #19  
Old October 28th 05, 09:29 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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Posts: n/a
Default Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?


"Stefan" wrote in message
...

Why did you snip my next sentence?


Because since I chose not to respond to it there was no reason to keep it.


  #20  
Old October 28th 05, 09:45 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Widower stabbed Air Traffic Controller?


"David Cartwright" wrote in message
...

I think the original poster perhaps chose the wrong words. While it can't
be denied that the controller made a mistake, this mistake was an
understandable one given the circumstances in which he found himself
(working multiple desks, with some equipment out of action, etc). It could
be said that he also made a mistake by accepting the workload when he came
on shift and had it handed to him, but I don't know enough about the
circumstances and/or the relationship between staff and management to
comment on that.


Priority one in ATC is separation. He lost separation and all the equipment
needed to maintain it seems to have been working.



He was, however, not the only one who made a mistake. One realisation that
came from this accident, for instance, is that when TCAS and an ATC person
tell you two different things, you go with TCAS - which wasn't the case in
this incident as one pilot went with the ATC command. Similarly, it seems
that the ATC management were at fault by allowing a skeleton staff to run
such a crucial operation.


But TCAS and an ATC person weren't telling him two different things at the
time he responded to the controller's instruction to descend. The TCAS RA
came later.


 




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