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Busted TFR, what to expect?



 
 
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  #91  
Old May 28th 06, 03:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.misc
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Default Busted TFR, what to expect?

Chris Colohan wrote:
"Jay Honeck" writes:

How long does your pre-takeoff checklist take you? Perhaps we're
commingling different parts of the lists, and counting them differently as a
result? (For example, Bob Noel checks his electric fuel pump during
pre-flight, which adds some time. We check the pump at engine start, so
we're not counting that particular check as part of our pre-flight
inspection...)



Another data point -- I am not nearly as experienced as you are, but
going through every item on the Citabria checklist takes me 20-30
minutes.


Wow, you've got to get out of 1st gear. :-)

I could preflight my 182, wash the windshield, change the oil and check
the tire pressures in 10 minutes time. I didn't realize a Citabria was
so complex. Does the preflight require ultrasonic inspection of the
structure or some such? :-)


Matt
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  #92  
Old May 28th 06, 03:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.misc
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Default Busted TFR, what to expect?

The TFR's I don't like are the pop up Fire Fighting Ones...

Yea, Call and get a weather briefer check for TFR's along the route anf
there are "NO" TFR's along the route!!! you are on flight following center
says NXXXXX TFR 5 miles straight ahead off XXX radial of XXX VOR present
heading will put you in the middle of Said TFR Suggest heading of XXX Until
advised. You call up flight watch on 122.0 and 1 hour prior the TFR was
issued you called 2.5 hours ago.

I make it a habit when flying in fire prone areas of the US to check about
every hour or two for any pop up TFR's and any other notams along the route
and also give a pirep on the current conditions.


"bob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Seems I busted a VIP TFR Monday near Sacramento (VP Cheney was in town
raising money for a couple of congressmen). On landing at my
destination I was asked by the airport manager to call an ATC number,
who got my info and said they would forward it to the local FSDO as a
"pilot deviation". I'm not disputing that I indeed was ignorant of the
TFR and violated it.

So what can I expect? I've already figured out that the Secret Service
isn't going to arrest me. My biggest concern is what it will do to my
insurance costs when I renew next year. Should I bother filing the
NASA ASRS form? Since I'm a PP-ASEL and flying is a hobby, I don't
otherwise care a lot if my license is suspended for a time or I end up
with a record.



  #93  
Old May 28th 06, 06:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.misc
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Default Busted TFR, what to expect?

Matt Whiting writes:

Chris Colohan wrote:
Another data point -- I am not nearly as experienced as you are, but


going through every item on the Citabria checklist takes me 20-30
minutes.


Wow, you've got to get out of 1st gear. :-)

I could preflight my 182, wash the windshield, change the oil and
check the tire pressures in 10 minutes time. I didn't realize a
Citabria was so complex. Does the preflight require ultrasonic
inspection of the structure or some such? :-)


I admit I am new to this, and I could probably go faster with
experience. But I attribute most of this time to checking everything
that can be seen, touched, or smelled that I can get my hands, eyes,
or nose on. The plane I fly is kind of old and creaky -- and I am
paranoid enough to check everything that reasonably can be checked
without tools. Sometimes I find myself falling into habit, and doing
a check quickly -- when I notice this, I force myself to slow down and
do the check again purposefully. Sometimes I notice things on the
second time which my eyes skimmed over on the first check.

My instructor also provided a 10-page checklist for me to use on the
preflight. Perhaps this is more detailed than average? (My
instructor claims that the checklist started off much shorter, but
grew every time something went wrong over his many years of flying
Citabrias...)

One other data point -- about half of the time I fly the Citabria I
find a minor problem (not major enough to affect airworthiness, but
worth fixing: screw missing on a wing root fairing, underinflated
tire, slightly low on oil, etc.) This plane is based at a busy club,
and many other pilots fly the plane in between my flying sessions. I
take this as a good sign -- my preflight technique is noticing
problems which other pilots are missing, before they become more major
problems. (Alternative explanations: 1. all of these minor problem
occurred right before I want to go flying; 2. other pilots noticed
these problems but didn't think they were worth writing them down as
squawks.)

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web:
www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751
  #94  
Old May 28th 06, 06:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.misc
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Default Busted TFR, what to expect?

Chris Colohan wrote:

Matt Whiting writes:


Chris Colohan wrote:

Another data point -- I am not nearly as experienced as you are, but


going through every item on the Citabria checklist takes me 20-30
minutes.


Wow, you've got to get out of 1st gear. :-)

I could preflight my 182, wash the windshield, change the oil and
check the tire pressures in 10 minutes time. I didn't realize a
Citabria was so complex. Does the preflight require ultrasonic
inspection of the structure or some such? :-)



I admit I am new to this, and I could probably go faster with
experience. But I attribute most of this time to checking everything
that can be seen, touched, or smelled that I can get my hands, eyes,
or nose on. The plane I fly is kind of old and creaky -- and I am
paranoid enough to check everything that reasonably can be checked
without tools. Sometimes I find myself falling into habit, and doing
a check quickly -- when I notice this, I force myself to slow down and
do the check again purposefully. Sometimes I notice things on the
second time which my eyes skimmed over on the first check.

My instructor also provided a 10-page checklist for me to use on the
preflight. Perhaps this is more detailed than average? (My
instructor claims that the checklist started off much shorter, but
grew every time something went wrong over his many years of flying
Citabrias...)


A 10 page preflight checklist is simply ridiculous. All of the
checklists for my Skylane, including the emergency ones that I made up
myself since Cessna didn't provide much of any, were less than 10 pages.


Matt
  #95  
Old July 8th 06, 10:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.misc
David J. Zera
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Posts: 17
Default Busted TFR, what to expect?

well.....just food for thought all of the major cell phone carriers sell a
program that can be downloaded to many phones that has TFR's as well as full
weather its called Pilot My-cast

https://secure.my-cast.com/pilot.jsp

Dave Zera
Co-Chariman
Safety / Flight Line
AirVenture 2006

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...
"JD" == John Doe writes:


JD I had my first experience with a VIP TFR last weekend. Bush
JD was in town and I had gotten an email from AOPA notifying me
JD of the TFR in my area.

Bush was in Sacto a few weeks ago and I too got the AOPA notification
by email. Because of that, and checking the extent of that TFR, I
decided not to risk it and simply didn't fly that weekend.

But for the TFR I violated, I didn't get a notice from AOPA. Why, I'm
not sure. And the local newspaper had nothing about Cheney's visit
until afterwards so I didn't know he was in town.

JD Luckily, I've learned to check NOTAMS prior to every flight,
JD and following the procedures, the TFR didn't delay me at all
JD in getting on my way.

I rarely check NOTAMS or get a briefing for local VFR flights, and
quite honestly I doubt I'll change my habits. The FAA should
recognize that using NOTAMs alone are not enough. Maybe they should
take email addresses and locations from pilots (kinda like AOPA) and
send notices when a TFR is going to pop up in a given area.

Maybe they could reserve a frequency just to broadcast important area
NOTAMs. Pilots would get in the habit of checking it before takeoff
and during flight. Maybe area NOTAMs could be added on to AWOS
broadcasts. Something?





  #96  
Old July 9th 06, 01:59 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.misc
Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_1_]
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Posts: 30
Default Busted TFR, what to expect?

David J. Zera wrote:
well.....just food for thought all of the major cell phone carriers sell a
program that can be downloaded to many phones that has TFR's as well as full
weather its called Pilot My-cast

https://secure.my-cast.com/pilot.jsp



Looks pretty good except it works for every phone known to man except the one I
JUST got two weeks ago. I'n stuck with it for two years, too.

Damn.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE


  #97  
Old July 9th 06, 02:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.misc
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Posts: 10
Default Busted TFR, what to expect?

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 00:59:47 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
wrote:

David J. Zera wrote:
well.....just food for thought all of the major cell phone carriers sell a
program that can be downloaded to many phones that has TFR's as well as full
weather its called Pilot My-cast

https://secure.my-cast.com/pilot.jsp



Looks pretty good except it works for every phone known to man except the one I
JUST got two weeks ago. I'n stuck with it for two years, too.


It works with my phone, but I'd have to change providers to use it
with that phone which doesn't make sense.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Damn.

Roger
  #98  
Old July 9th 06, 03:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.misc
Bob Fry
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Posts: 369
Default Busted TFR, what to expect?

Nice idea, but doesn't work with my phone.

I still haven't got the letter from the FAA detailing my punishment,
but after talking to the FSDO a few times I know what to expect:

- 30 day license suspension for violating the TFR, NASA ASRS form
doesn't work to suspend penalty

- Another 15 days added by local FSDO for failing to get complete
information before flight; actually serving the penalty is waived by
ASRS

Other things I learned, most from AOPA's web site:

- When asked to return a phone call, whether the tower, ATC, or the
FAA, a pilot is under absolutely no legal requirement to do so.

- And in fact you're often better off not to call back. Even the FSDO
guy admitted that they lessen their add-on penalty if they're not sure
they have the right person. In other words, being stand-up and not
concealing anything simply makes you an easy target and a chump. I
would probably call back for a tower or class C controller, but
probably won't for anything else in the future.

- If you decide to call for a briefing before every flight, you can
ask for just NOTAMs and TFRs. However this may not protect you from
the add-on penalty for not getting complete info before flight.

- FSS briefers can and do fail to report vital information, most often
if it's out of their region. Two local pilots, after hearing about
me, related tales of neglected information (a safety TFR and a
malfunctioning VOR) that would be pretty important to flight safety.
They knew about these only by chance, and when they asked the FSS
briefer about them, the response they got was "Oh yea, thanks for
reminding me!" (TFR) and "Oh, does anybody use VORs anymore?" But at
least you'll be on record and your legal butt will be safe, if not
your physical butt.

More when I get the letter....sometime.

  #99  
Old July 9th 06, 04:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.misc
David J. Zera
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Posts: 17
Default Busted TFR, what to expect?

Mortimer,

The list that Digital cyclone keeps on supported phone is really out of
date. depending on your carrier access the download pages on the phone's
web. My sprint phone (mm9000) is not listed on the supported pages BUT it is
supported and downloadable from Sprint's site. I believe that you will find
that you can download and use it!

Dave Zera
Co-Chariman
Safety / Flight line
AirVenture 2006
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
...
David J. Zera wrote:
well.....just food for thought all of the major cell phone carriers sell
a
program that can be downloaded to many phones that has TFR's as well as
full
weather its called Pilot My-cast

https://secure.my-cast.com/pilot.jsp



Looks pretty good except it works for every phone known to man except the
one I JUST got two weeks ago. I'n stuck with it for two years, too.

Damn.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE






 




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