Turn to Final - Keeping Ball Centered

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 13, 6:23 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
Roger wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:52:38 -0800, Jim Stewart
wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 12, 3:39 am, Dan wrote:
On Mar 12, 2:18 am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
-- IGNORE BELOW -- Depends on the A/C, what were you flying?
In an F-4 doing a 3-4g bank is easy, but in
a trainer I'd suggest 2g max.
Ken
-- IGNORE ABOVE ---
Assuming you're not flying an F-4 in a sim, we'll move on to
reality....
This fear is (correctly) pounded into every aspiring/training
pilot -- don't cross control stall on turn to final!
A pilot is trained to do 2g coordinated turns,
even in twink flying, gee I wonder why.
It's a perfectly safe thing to do and IIRC was
Perfectly safe if not close to the ground and the pilot is
proficient
ant not just current.
a requirement for a pilot's license.
Are you just making this stuff up as you go along?
The Practical Test Standard requires the
demonstration of a steep turn at 45 degree
bank and a safe or recommended airspeed.
That's as steep and high g as it gets and it's
not going to be 2g in my plane.
2Gg turns are fun nor are they hazardous when not done close to the
ground. When I took Bo specific training the instructor started
talking me into a steep turn. I asked if it was OK to just roll into
it and go. I He said "OK", so I just rolled left and pulled. Coming
up on the proper heading he said now lets do one the other direction
where by I rolled to the right and pulled. This brought a laughing
comment, "You really like to do these things don't you?" My puzzled
"sure", brought the explanation that most of the Bo pilots would only
grudgingly do 45 degrees let alone 60. You should have heard them
complain when told the instructors would be blocking the yokes so
they couldn't use the ailerons when doing stalls.:-))
I've found few of newer pilots and instructors like 2G at 60 degrees
or the stalling characteristics of the Deb so when I go out to
practice it's only the "old timers" who go along.
When I took the PTS it was 60 degrees and 2Gs. By not going to 60
degrees in steep turns the students miss out on the different banking
tendencies/characteristics. I often think it should be put back to
that. There have been moments where I've been glad they did things
that way back then. One such moment was when a ultra light flying
far later than allowed popped out of the dark directly in front of me
when I was no more than a couple hundred yards (if that) from the end
of the runway. Another was on the VOR approach to MtPleasant where
you fly directly over the runway at 500 feet to the VOR to go missed
on 27. When the instructor's voice went up an octave and he said and
I quote..."What that...Oh, ****! Pull UP, Pull UP! I went full
power, stood the Deb on end and did a push over to level off that
left things floating. He never would tell me how close we came but
from his actions I'd say probably no more than a few feet. BTW I did
all of that under the hood. I mentioned to the CFI that I figured
had it been really close he'd have taken over. He said he figured
that I knew the limits of the plane and would react quicker than he
could even if he could see. He was right though, The urgency (I
couldeven feel him tense sitting next to me) told me that this should
be a maximum effort and not just a climb. Made me glad I use 120 for
approaches instead of 80 or 90 too:-))
Neither of these were things covered in primary training or the PTS.
They took a lot of time and practice getting to know the limits of
the Deb.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
I agree. I had to do 60 degree banked turns for my Private as well.
Sheesh. I can't remember what I had to do . I do remember spins, some
hood time and an engine failure on takeoff. I also remember filing and
putting in a cruising altitude of say, 3500 and then being so afraid to
deviate from it I flew underneat an overcast at that alt with my fin in
the clouds..
Bertie
A lot has changed since those days. If I remember right, the requirement
was for a 60 degree banked turn in both directions entering one from the
other within an altitude parameter either way of 50 feet. Just racking
my memory here but that sounds close.....and this was for the PRIVATE!!
:-))
Dudley Henriques

An instrument that was stressed for me during
instruction was this,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attitude_indicator

The 60 degree banked turn (IIRC), did require that
50' +/- altitude, keeping the ball centered, and
maintaining a constant KIAS with some +power.

When that 50' +/- requirement was spec'd by the
instructor I got fixated on the "rate of climb"
indicator.
Well he smirked and sent my concentration to the
attitude indicator and to learn to use that.
Other pilots have mentioned the attitude indicator
is the most important instrument.
What do you guys think?
Ken

Ken Tucker writes of Dudley Henriques in a prior thread;

"Dud, you've never been in an airplane, and you're
NOT an instructor. I'm a prof teacher and I can
sniff your bad **** off the net, you're a phony!"

Personally Ken, if I held this opinion about someone, they would be the
last person in the world I'd ask for an opinion on ANYTHING. :-)

I'm sure with your excellent qualifications as a pilot, you really don't
need any feedback from the likes of me.

Best to you

--
Dudley Henriques