SN-10 vs CAI 302

Hi,

I have been using a SN-10B/Volkslogger combination in my LS-4 for the
last 5 years and have loved it. However, I just acquired a glider with
a CAI-302/PDA combination and am contemplating swapping the systems
before selling my LS-4.

I like the presumed flexibiity of taking the PDA with me at the end of
the day, having the flight log on the SD card as opposed to having to
upload to a laptop, and having the option of running different flight
software on the PDA. I also like the idea of having it with me at the
pilot's meeting and being able to set up the task and/or do what-ifs
for AATs without having to be at the glider.

However, I'm not sure about giving up the SN-10's simplicity and its
superior (I think) wind calculations.

At the risk of starting a religious war, I would like input on the
strengths/weaknesses of the CAI-302/PDA (running GPS Glide Navigator II
or similar) for competition use as compared to the SN-10, especially
from those of you who have used both for competitions.

TIA,

Frank

Frank,
keep both.
I fly an Lnav/GPSnav with a 1550 and a 302A with a 39xx as a backup.
Udo

Frank wrote:
Hi,

I have been using a SN-10B/Volkslogger combination in my LS-4 for the
last 5 years and have loved it. However, I just acquired a glider with
a CAI-302/PDA combination and am contemplating swapping the systems
before selling my LS-4.

I like the presumed flexibiity of taking the PDA with me at the end of
the day, having the flight log on the SD card as opposed to having to
upload to a laptop, and having the option of running different flight
software on the PDA. I also like the idea of having it with me at the
pilot's meeting and being able to set up the task and/or do what-ifs
for AATs without having to be at the glider.

However, I'm not sure about giving up the SN-10's simplicity and its
superior (I think) wind calculations.

At the risk of starting a religious war, I would like input on the
strengths/weaknesses of the CAI-302/PDA (running GPS Glide Navigator II
or similar) for competition use as compared to the SN-10, especially
from those of you who have used both for competitions.

TIA,

Frank

Udo,

Cant do that - have to have something in the glider when I sell it ;-)

Frank

Udo wrote:
Frank,
keep both.
I fly an Lnav/GPSnav with a 1550 and a 302A with a 39xx as a backup.
Udo

Frank wrote:
Hi,

I have been using a SN-10B/Volkslogger combination in my LS-4 for the
last 5 years and have loved it. However, I just acquired a glider with
a CAI-302/PDA combination and am contemplating swapping the systems
before selling my LS-4.

I like the presumed flexibiity of taking the PDA with me at the end of
the day, having the flight log on the SD card as opposed to having to
upload to a laptop, and having the option of running different flight
software on the PDA. I also like the idea of having it with me at the
pilot's meeting and being able to set up the task and/or do what-ifs
for AATs without having to be at the glider.

However, I'm not sure about giving up the SN-10's simplicity and its
superior (I think) wind calculations.

At the risk of starting a religious war, I would like input on the
strengths/weaknesses of the CAI-302/PDA (running GPS Glide Navigator II
or similar) for competition use as compared to the SN-10, especially
from those of you who have used both for competitions.

TIA,

Frank

Buy a Garmin GPS 16-HVS ($129 us) for the SN-10 and keep the
Volkslogger to run the PDA.

That will give you an easy way to download flights and a backup logger.

Frank wrote:
Udo,

Cant do that - have to have something in the glider when I sell it ;-)

Frank

Udo wrote:
Frank,
keep both.
I fly an Lnav/GPSnav with a 1550 and a 302A with a 39xx as a backup.
Udo

Frank wrote:
Hi,

I have been using a SN-10B/Volkslogger combination in my LS-4 for the
last 5 years and have loved it. However, I just acquired a glider with
a CAI-302/PDA combination and am contemplating swapping the systems
before selling my LS-4.

I like the presumed flexibiity of taking the PDA with me at the end of
the day, having the flight log on the SD card as opposed to having to
upload to a laptop, and having the option of running different flight
software on the PDA. I also like the idea of having it with me at the
pilot's meeting and being able to set up the task and/or do what-ifs
for AATs without having to be at the glider.

However, I'm not sure about giving up the SN-10's simplicity and its
superior (I think) wind calculations.

At the risk of starting a religious war, I would like input on the
strengths/weaknesses of the CAI-302/PDA (running GPS Glide Navigator II
or similar) for competition use as compared to the SN-10, especially
from those of you who have used both for competitions.

TIA,

Frank

Hi Frank,
Why do you think the SN10's wind calcs are that much more (if any)
superior than the 302's? I've never seen anything empirical comparing
them. I don't think I've ever read anything even written that was
hear-say. I have seen a 302 in action and it's wind calcs seem pretty
good to me. You also can't beat the size; good vario, certified logger
and GPS all in one nice, small package.

However, the suggestion made to split the volkslogger from the sn10 and
thus have a backup system does have merit. As I said at Fairfield, the
SN10 can also now drive a PDA passing the GPS data through and adding
other info to it.

Just my 2 cents

-Mark
Frank wrote:
Hi,

I have been using a SN-10B/Volkslogger combination in my LS-4 for the
last 5 years and have loved it. However, I just acquired a glider with
a CAI-302/PDA combination and am contemplating swapping the systems
before selling my LS-4.

I like the presumed flexibiity of taking the PDA with me at the end of
the day, having the flight log on the SD card as opposed to having to
upload to a laptop, and having the option of running different flight
software on the PDA. I also like the idea of having it with me at the
pilot's meeting and being able to set up the task and/or do what-ifs
for AATs without having to be at the glider.

However, I'm not sure about giving up the SN-10's simplicity and its
superior (I think) wind calculations.

At the risk of starting a religious war, I would like input on the
strengths/weaknesses of the CAI-302/PDA (running GPS Glide Navigator II
or similar) for competition use as compared to the SN-10, especially
from those of you who have used both for competitions.

TIA,

Frank

Some years ago, I was given a PDA and one of the popular software programs
to add to my SN-10 information.

At first, I thought, Wow, this is really neat!
But after flying with the two systems for awhile, I took stock of what I was
being presented.

There are two kinds of information - interesting and useful. As a
competition pilot, all that "interesting" information is a distraction and
detracts from my soaring performance.

I then wrote down what I need to know (emphasis on "need") at any moment
before, during and after a flight. After doing this, I discovered the ILEC
SN-10 has everything I need in an easy to use, non-distracting, easy to see
display save a few things found on a sectional chart.

So I removed the PDA, (far less distracting) and carry a sectional chart I
never have needed to look at.

I will admit there probably are places in the soaring world a sectional
chart is required and will serve me well. As for the PDA, I prefer to spend
most of my time looking outside the cockpit.

Tom Knauff



"Mark Hawkins" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi Frank,
Why do you think the SN10's wind calcs are that much more (if any)
superior than the 302's? I've never seen anything empirical comparing
them. I don't think I've ever read anything even written that was
hear-say. I have seen a 302 in action and it's wind calcs seem pretty
good to me. You also can't beat the size; good vario, certified logger
and GPS all in one nice, small package.

However, the suggestion made to split the volkslogger from the sn10 and
thus have a backup system does have merit. As I said at Fairfield, the
SN10 can also now drive a PDA passing the GPS data through and adding
other info to it.

Just my 2 cents

-Mark
Frank wrote:
Hi,

I have been using a SN-10B/Volkslogger combination in my LS-4 for the
last 5 years and have loved it. However, I just acquired a glider with
a CAI-302/PDA combination and am contemplating swapping the systems
before selling my LS-4.

I like the presumed flexibiity of taking the PDA with me at the end of
the day, having the flight log on the SD card as opposed to having to
upload to a laptop, and having the option of running different flight
software on the PDA. I also like the idea of having it with me at the
pilot's meeting and being able to set up the task and/or do what-ifs
for AATs without having to be at the glider.

However, I'm not sure about giving up the SN-10's simplicity and its
superior (I think) wind calculations.

At the risk of starting a religious war, I would like input on the
strengths/weaknesses of the CAI-302/PDA (running GPS Glide Navigator II
or similar) for competition use as compared to the SN-10, especially
from those of you who have used both for competitions.

TIA,

Frank

Frank,
I have flown with both the SN-10 and the 302/PDA combination using
Winpilot in sports class competition. I can't back up my claim with
data, but my impression is that the SN-10 does a better job with wind
and final glide calculations. I believe the PDA with Winpilot has a
far superior moving map, and is a bit easier to enter tasks, but if I
had to choose I'd still go with the SN-10 over the 302/PDA combination.
Happily, I actually now use both. I was able to build a cable and
toggle switch which allows the GPS engine in my 302 feed both my SN-10
and the PDA, plus I have the option of downloading flights either to
the PDA or from the SN-10 to a laptop. I typically use the SN-10 as my
primary navigation and flight data computer and keep the PDA as a
backup. I only turn it on every now and then when I need to see the
moving map.
I'd keep the SN-10.
Clay

Frank wrote:
However, I'm not sure about giving up the SN-10's simplicity and its
superior (I think) wind calculations.

The SN10 computes the wind and uses it. The 302 just computes wind and
makes it available for use. How the wind estimate is used depends on
what PDA software you run. Some PDA software provides non intuitive
(to put it kindly) task estimates in presence of strong winds.

Andy

Andy wrote:
Frank wrote:
However, I'm not sure about giving up the SN-10's simplicity and its
superior (I think) wind calculations.

The SN10 computes the wind and uses it. The 302 just computes wind and
makes it available for use. How the wind estimate is used depends on
what PDA software you run. Some PDA software provides non intuitive
(to put it kindly) task estimates in presence of strong winds.

Andy

I have a lot less experience than most of the postings but while I was
renting a variety of gliders it was my opinion that the lease user
friendly was the SN10. I would not want to try to find a landout site
from its moving map and/or indications until I had a few flights under
my belt. I am sure once you have used it for a period of time it is
great.

I use winpilot with the 302 and I find many of the features helpful to
beginning xc pilots. It helps finding thermals and maximizing the lift
when you are in it. Loading multiple tasks and the trace and goto
buttons are also very helpful. Winpilot can get complicated I have a
long way to go before I will be confortable with all its options.

Like a lot of thing in life people like what they get use to.

wrote in message
ups.com...

I have a lot less experience than most of the postings but while I was
renting a variety of gliders it was my opinion that the lease user
friendly was the SN10. I would not want to try to find a landout site
from its moving map and/or indications until I had a few flights under
my belt. I am sure once you have used it for a period of time it is
great.

Interesting since the SN-10 has an entire page devoted to nothing but
closest/nearest landing points. It allows you to order them wrt nearest or
an easy scroll through names for one that you may know you would rather land
at. I use it frequently during racing or other XC and rarely use the map.
It automatically gives distances to the fields and considers the current
winds and Mc setting and also puts in a 150 meter arrival altitude along
with displaying how far over or under a glide to the field you are. I don't
see how something could be much easier to use than that.

Casey Lenox
KC
Phoenix