preferrred bank angle indicator?

Gary Evans wrote:
I have culled the collective wisdom in this thread
to save any new followers time.

Use of Trutrak T&B indicator for emergency cloud
flying

I'd say close but not quite accurate:

1) To fly in a cloud means certain death or worse.

Clearly not, because pilots do it and survive. I'd say, to fly in cloud
without proper planning, instruments and knowledge of what you're doing
is very risky indeed. However, letting down through a cloud layer via a
benign spiral (if you know there's plenty of clear air beneath) is
likely to be comparatively low risk.

2) You should fly in clouds for practice.

For intentional cloud flying, my limited experience and more extensive
reading tells me you need to keep in practice. Unintentional entry I
wouldn't practice for, but I'd have an emergency plan (airbrakes out,
trim back to best L/D or thereabouts, and don't mess with the controls).

Many glider pilots can't practice because cloud flying is generally
illegal in their countries.

3) Special training is required to survive a cloud
flight.

Not to survive (see 2 above), but to fly intentionally and successfully
in cloud you need either training or an effective self-teaching
programme (see next point).

4) You can train yourself.

In theory you can - my self-training programme is derived from the
writings of pilots, some of whom who taught themselves. I can't say yet
whether it's a successful programme, or whether I'll carry on cloud
flying if I do manage to teach myself successfully. The only thing I'm
comfortable about is that the way I'm approaching this is not
excessively risky.

5) Special instruments are necessary for cloud flight.

Definitely. The acknowledged minimum is bank indicator (e.g. T&S) and
ASI. From previous posts, Tru-Trak is not a true bank indicator, which
means that its limitations need to be understood when using it.

An artificial horizon is clearly easier because it gives you bank and
pitch simultaneously. However, as the earlier poster who actually uses
one points out, you need a T&S as backup in case the horizon fails. This
is why I'm starting with T&S/ASI alone - the backup's no good to me if I
can't use it. My reading suggests that relying on a horizon alone (which
is effectively what you're doing, even if you have a T&S fitted, if you
can't use it) is riskier than I care for.

6) Instruments are worthless in a cloud.

Definitely no, if you mean horizon/T&S/horizon. Other instruments
(except, I understand, a Bohli compass in the hands of an expert) are
little or no use for maintaining control in cloud.

Following RAS for years this seems to be a fairly typical
example of group guidance. The truth I suspect lies
somewhere between the lines. Interesting to read however.

Like all RAS postings, you get a mix of experience and hearsay. Looking
back over the thread, only four posters (including me) stated they had
any experience of flying in cloud, though from the comments of some of
the others they might also have done this.

I tend to give rather more weight to postings which come from the
pilot's own experience, which is as good a way as any other of sorting
the wheat from the chaff.

My advice to the original poster, from someone with approximately 1 more
hour/6 flights in total cloud flying than he has, is to save his money
on the Tru-Trak. Practice the benign spiral instead, as you never intend
to fly in cloud intentionally. My hour has taken me to the stage where I
am not completely out of control in cloud, but definitely not fully in
control. All this in the easiest of cloud - intentional entry, gentle
lift, little turbulence. Caught out by a wave gap closing does not
strike me as the ideal conditions to begin your own training programme.

Chris Reed schrieb:

Many glider pilots can't practice because cloud flying is generally
illegal in their countries.

In most countries, it's prefectly legal. France is an exception, also
Spain and Italy, if I recall correctly. It's just not too common in most
countries.

4) You can train yourself.

For each and every activity, there has always been at least one person
who had to train himself. It's just the survival rate which was
sometimes less than desired, though.

An artificial horizon is clearly easier because it gives you bank and
pitch simultaneously. However, as the earlier poster who actually uses
one points out, you need a T&S as backup in case the horizon fails.

The T&S is more than a backup. It's absolutely indispesable for cross
reference.

Each artificial horizon has some drift over time (even if it doesn't
tumble). (Only for those multi thousand dollar high tech ring laser
systems drift can be neglected.) And then, these (mechanical) horizons
were typically built for straight and level flight, not for tight
circling in a bumpy cloud. Stay 15 minutes in such a cloud, which is a
reasonable time, and most horizons will show more or less wrong bank.
Only the T&S will *always* show the correct data, due to the
construction principle (as long as it's not broken, of course).

Definitely no, if you mean horizon/T&S/horizon. Other instruments
(except, I understand, a Bohli compass in the hands of an expert) are
little or no use for maintaining control in cloud.

Definitely no. Of course you can cloud fly with minimal instruments, but
it's the redundancy of a full panel (and you being able to use this
redundancy) which makes it safe. And of course you need a compass (plain
old whisky works fine, if you know how to interpret it) to leave the
cloud in the desired direction.

Stefan

At 21:30 27 May 2006, Gary Evans wrote:I have culled
the collective wisdom in this threadto save any new
followers time. Use of Trutrak T&B indicator for
emergency cloudflying1) To fly in a cloud means certain
death or worse.2) You should fly in clouds for practice.3)
Special training is required to survive a cloudflight.4)
You can train yourself.5) Special instruments are necessary
for cloud flight.6) Instruments are worthless in a
cloud.Gary, you missed out no. 77) Any attempt a levity
will be rewarded with a lengthy and very serious lecture.
You have been warned!

At 21:30 27 May 2006, Gary Evans wrote:I have culled
the collective wisdom in this threadto save any new
followers time. Use of Trutrak T&B indicator for
emergency cloudflying1) To fly in a cloud means certain
death or worse.2) You should fly in clouds for practice.3)
Special training is required to survive a cloudflight.4)
You can train yourself.5) Special instruments are necessary
for cloud flight.6) Instruments are worthless in a
cloud.Gary, you missed out no. 77) Any attempt a levity
will be rewarded with a lengthy and very serious lecture.
You have been warned!