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preparing for commercial oral and practical



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 12th 07, 04:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Jose
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Default preparing for commercial oral and practical

Expect to get
a lot of questions about the limitations of a commercial pilot
operating under part 91 (i.e. what you cannot do w/o being 135).
Expect some of those situations to get pretty complicated (i.e. you
start out on a local photography flight, the photographer asks you if
you'll drop him off at point X rather than back at the airport).


I take it the answer would be no. But what about you start out on a
local photography flight, you get diverted and have to land. As it
turns out, this is near where the photographer needs to be, so he
decides not to fly back when the reason for the diversion ends?

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #12  
Old May 12th 07, 05:37 AM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Burns
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Default Checklists preparing for commercial oral and practical

The DE will want to see that you know that checklists are important and that
you use them appropriately. Matt makes a good point, there are Do first and
verify type ops or phases, but there are also Checklist first, do second and
verify type ops or phases. The point is that when you move up into faster
and more complex airplanes you must be able to use good judgment to discern
between the two. For instance, the cruise portion of our Aztec checklist
only has a couple items with the only action items being to close the cowl
flaps and to lean, but, it mentions verifying everything that should have
been performed in the climb checklist. Most twins have specific fuel tank &
crossfeed settings for different phases of flight, if you switch between
airplanes your mind will mix them up at one point or another unless you're
in the habit of using the checklist. There will be a day when GUMPS will
have a lot more letters in it.

Jim


  #13  
Old May 12th 07, 07:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
buttman
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Posts: 361
Default preparing for commercial oral and practical

On May 11, 8:08 pm, Jose wrote:
Expect to get
a lot of questions about the limitations of a commercial pilot
operating under part 91 (i.e. what you cannot do w/o being 135).
Expect some of those situations to get pretty complicated (i.e. you
start out on a local photography flight, the photographer asks you if
you'll drop him off at point X rather than back at the airport).


I take it the answer would be no. But what about you start out on a
local photography flight, you get diverted and have to land. As it
turns out, this is near where the photographer needs to be, so he
decides not to fly back when the reason for the diversion ends?

Jose



My guess would be since the passenger is paying for a photography
flight, not a charter flight, it should be allowed. The only way for
it to be illegal would be if the passenger paid for the flight,
knowing he would land somewhere else. Since the diversion was
incidental, I don't think it could be considered common carriage. I
don't do that kind of flying, so I'm not totally sure.

There are 4 rules that determine whether a flight is common carriage
or not. 3 of these rules are very clear cut (people or property, from
place to place, for hire) and the last one (holding out) is really
vague. Basically if the FAA says you're holding out, you're holding
out. I believe there's an AC published (AC 120-12A)that goes into
detail what is holding out. To quote it directly, "the issue is the
nature and character of the operation".

So if the pilot was doing an honest diversion, it should be OK. If the
pilot was doing a **WINK** **WINK** "diversion", he would get in
trouble. At least thats how I see it.

  #14  
Old May 12th 07, 03:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Peter Dohm
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Posts: 1,754
Default preparing for commercial oral and practical


"buttman" wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 11, 8:08 pm, Jose wrote:
Expect to get
a lot of questions about the limitations of a commercial pilot
operating under part 91 (i.e. what you cannot do w/o being 135).
Expect some of those situations to get pretty complicated (i.e. you
start out on a local photography flight, the photographer asks you if
you'll drop him off at point X rather than back at the airport).


I take it the answer would be no. But what about you start out on a
local photography flight, you get diverted and have to land. As it
turns out, this is near where the photographer needs to be, so he
decides not to fly back when the reason for the diversion ends?

Jose



My guess would be since the passenger is paying for a photography
flight, not a charter flight, it should be allowed. The only way for
it to be illegal would be if the passenger paid for the flight,
knowing he would land somewhere else. Since the diversion was
incidental, I don't think it could be considered common carriage. I
don't do that kind of flying, so I'm not totally sure.

There are 4 rules that determine whether a flight is common carriage
or not. 3 of these rules are very clear cut (people or property, from
place to place, for hire) and the last one (holding out) is really
vague. Basically if the FAA says you're holding out, you're holding
out. I believe there's an AC published (AC 120-12A)that goes into
detail what is holding out. To quote it directly, "the issue is the
nature and character of the operation".

So if the pilot was doing an honest diversion, it should be OK. If the
pilot was doing a **WINK** **WINK** "diversion", he would get in
trouble. At least thats how I see it.


On this one I agree with you.

As a former student pilot, and presumably a future student pilot and then
private pilot, I have no expectation of ever having this particular
discussion with a DE. However, there are a few parallels in debates
regarding the sharing of expenses and of business vs commercial flying: and
some of those can become esoteric to the point of becoming ridiculous.

A lot could also depend upon the personality of the examiner and any recent
cases and guidance he may have received. Quite a long time ago, I was
sitting in the (then) local airport restaurant and one of those present, who
I believe was primarily a charter pilot, related a story about his oral exam
for either instrument or commercial. It was long and convoluted, if true,
and he was sent back for further study a couple of times--until he happened
to answer a question with something like "I will have to look that up."
According to the story, he then passed the exam.

Given the plausible and uncommon situation described above, plus a moment of
greater insight than I usually display, I might try to dance around the
question with something like: "Well, if I was the pilot, I would have
decided where to land based upon safety of flight and whatever services
might be needed while on the ground; and I think that it would be unwise to
attempt to force him/her back into the airplane. Can you offer any guidance
in case anything similar ever occurs?"

Peter


  #15  
Old May 12th 07, 04:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
K Baum
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Posts: 36
Default preparing for commercial oral and practical

On May 11, 4:43 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Jim Burns wrote:
Pre flights... what do you check, why do you check it, how do you identify a
discrepancy and how come you're not using a checklist for the preflight?
What happens when you have a larger airplane? Use a checklist. Safety.


This is interesting as I watch a lot of airline pilots do their
preflight and I've NEVER seen one carry a checklist.


Just to clarify this Matt, airline pilots do not use a checklist on a
walk around because they are not required to. You can rest assured
that for evry operation that requires a checklist, it is being used.

Personally, I like the Navy approach to checklists.
Execute the list from memory and then "check" it with the checklist.
That way in an emergency you know the procedures and can do them
instantly and come back when things are more under control and check
what you've done.


Actually, everyone (except maybe GA pilots) does things this way. In
other words, the checklist is not treated as a "To Do" list. To
elaborate further, in an emergency, there are certain "recall Items"
or "Memory Items" that you do from memory, and then procede with the
rest of the checklist. I think your observation here is very
prudent.

I realize the FAA doesn't agree with this, but it makes a lot more sense
to me than fumbling for a checklist when the prop is windmilling and you
are descending at 800 fpm towards hostile terrain.


You hit this nail on the head! I think there are a few to many DARs
who like to express their opinions as facts when it comes to
checklists. Best thing to do is ask up front what the guy likes to
see.



Matt



  #16  
Old May 14th 07, 04:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Mark T. Dame
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Posts: 67
Default preparing for commercial oral and practical

Jim Burns wrote:

The intricacy's of weight and balance similar to the knowledge test
questions. Load, fly, unload, fly, refuel, load, fly unload, refuel....
what's your weight, where's your CG, what about if you have to hold, when
will you reach bingo fuel and where will your CG be then? Talk to a Bonanza
owner about CG changes with fuel burn.


Additionally, your CG probably changes when you retract your gear.
That's one of my commercial DE's pet points.


Use
blatant examples, don't get lead down a path into questionable areas, when
in doubt answer with "if I had any question or reservation what so ever, I'd
defer to someone like you (DE) or the FSDO and if I couldn't I'd refuse the
job".


Answering with that also tells the DE that you know that you don't know
everything and that the FAA is here to help. (-:


Along those lines... don't use any terms that you can not fully explain.
This is a great way to dig yourself into a deep hole. Keep your answers
straight and to the point.


It's like going to court: they can cross examine you on any point you
bring up.


What's the first thing that you do if your landing gear fails to extend?
Fly the airplane. What's the 2nd? Fly the airplane. The 3rd? Relax. The
4th.... get the checklist out. Do NOT on a commercial check ride try to do
anything from memory. The checklist is your ticket. Without it, you WILL
fail.


That is true, however, my DE pointed out (and continues to point out,
since I'm flying with her for my CFI ticket) that checklists are there
to make sure you don't forget anything, they aren't "TO DO" lists. The
point is that you don't need to use the checklist to perform every task,
but make sure you at least pull it out and go through the list out loud
to verify that you have completed all items. Use common sense he go
by the checklist for your preflight, starting, and run up. Pre-read it
for takeoff. Use it to confirm you did everything for emergency procedures.


Talk, talk, talk. Your DE will want to see your knowledge of each maneuver.
Tell him what you and the airplane are doing. Tell him why things aren't
going like they should, tell him what you should be doing and how to do it
and how the airplane will respond. If you do these things, your maneuver
can look like hell, but you've proven your knowledge of the maneuver, which
is what he wants to see.


I second that. If you screw up a maneuver and don't say anything,
you're more likely to fail than if you explain it as you are doing it
and then explain your mistake(s). It's not a get out of jail free card,
but being silent on a mistake is much more likely to result in a failure
than owning up to and explaining the hows and whys.

The one thing that I would recommend to know inside and out and upside
down is the privileges and limitations of the commercial certificate.
There are too many people who think that a commercial certificate give
you the right to charge for your flying. With a few specific
exceptions, it really only gives you the right to be hired by a
commercial operation. (This isn't intended to get into a long
discussion on the privileges and limitations of the commercial
certificate, only pointing out that it's a good idea to know 61.133 and
119.1.) This may not be the most important thing, but my DE felt that
it was an FAA emphasis point when I took my commercial checkride a few
months ago, so I would expect other DE's to feel the same.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## CP-ASEL, AGI
## insert tail number here
## KHAO, KISZ
"Making files is easy under the UNIX operating system. Therefore,
users tend to create numerous files using large amounts of file
space. It has been said that the only standard thing about all
UNIX systems is the message-of-the-day telling users to clean up
their files."
-- System V.2 administrator's guide
  #17  
Old May 14th 07, 04:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Mark T. Dame
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Posts: 67
Default preparing for commercial oral and practical

gatt wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
Expect some of those situations to get pretty complicated (i.e. you
start out on a local photography flight, the photographer asks you if
you'll drop him off at point X rather than back at the airport).


Would answering "Not unless you have a parachute" get me in trouble? ;


That's how I would answer it (assuming the DE has a good sense of
humor). In fact, I think I did answer it that way with regard to sight
seeing flights.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## CP-ASEL, AGI
## insert tail number here
## KHAO, KISZ
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine."
  #18  
Old May 14th 07, 04:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Jose
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Posts: 897
Default preparing for commercial oral and practical

Additionally, your CG probably changes when you retract your gear. That's one of my commercial DE's pet points.

Do you mean the actual CG (from the repositioning of the gear further
back, such as in a C172RG) or the change in flight behavior due to the
change in CP from removing the gear from the slipstream (such as in an
Arrow, where the gear retracts straight up)?

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #19  
Old May 14th 07, 05:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Mark T. Dame
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Posts: 67
Default preparing for commercial oral and practical

Jose wrote:
Additionally, your CG probably changes when you retract your gear.
That's one of my commercial DE's pet points.


Do you mean the actual CG (from the repositioning of the gear further
back, such as in a C172RG)


The actual CG. I would think that most retracts would change CG since
at least the nose gear is in a different position relative to the datum,
but I can only speak for the Arrow that I flew for my checkride.


or the change in flight behavior due to the
change in CP from removing the gear from the slipstream (such as in an
Arrow, where the gear retracts straight up)?


Only the mains. The nose gear moves back.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## CP-ASEL, AGI
## insert tail number here
## KHAO, KISZ
"Every time you lose you die a little bit. You die inside, a portion of
you. Not all of your organs, maybe just your liver."
-- George Allen
  #20  
Old May 14th 07, 05:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
Jose
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Posts: 897
Default preparing for commercial oral and practical

The actual CG. I would think that most retracts would change CG since at least the nose gear is in a different position relative to the datum, but I can only speak for the Arrow that I flew for my checkride.

Interesting - never thought much about it. Looking at the Arrow manual,
I see "moment due to retraction of landing gear" 819 in-lbs". Dividing
by 2000 lbs gives a CG change of about a half an inch.

Thanks.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
 




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