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Even Less Gloom?



 
 
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  #31  
Old June 24th 07, 02:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jay Honeck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,573
Default Even Less Gloom?

What's the difference between that and airport subsidies? In both
cases, the idea is that the added commerce brought to the area offsets
the direct costs.


In theory, there is a codified process that any airport grants must go
through. This supposedly weeds out the unworthy or unnecessary.

I've not seen any "cast in stone" procedures for obtaining corporate
welfare. Often the deciding factor seems to be "Who gave whom the
biggest political donation" during the last election...

For a great example of this, check out the last three hotels built in
the Iowa City market. One was built ENTIRELY with taxpayer money ($60
million!), one was built with a TIF (tax incremental financing --
basically paying no taxes for 20 years), and one was an organized
crime casino/hotel.

That's 500 gummint-built hotel rooms, in this itty-bitty market. Not
that I blame the guys who got it -- hey, I'd take it, too -- but the
fact that it is available to those who "bought" the biggest politician
really, REALLY sucks.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

  #32  
Old June 24th 07, 05:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Matt Barrow[_4_]
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Posts: 1,119
Default Even Less Gloom?


"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
Jonathan Goodish wrote:
In article ,
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:
It also appears that Mr. Bass has fostered good will with those whom
he leads. That is not a typical characteristic of a "slash & burn"
executive.


JKG

I don't see how basing their future on a VLJ that will just be one
among many in a yet unproven market is a good idea.


There is significant interest and demand already in the small jet/VLJ.
With the innovation happening in the industry, no one can wait until
the market is "proven," for by that time it will be too late. That's
the huge problem with the piston business--Piper missed the boat big-
time years ago.



JKG


The problem with the interest and demand for the VLJ market is that a
significant portion of it comes from yet another unproven market, on
demand air taxi.


And in 1981, PC's were an "unproven market" :~)

Hell, in the early 60's, COMPUTERS were un "unproven market".

The biggest impediment to Air Taxi, so far, has been scheduling and
logistics. You might dig into Google to find the computer models that are
comoing out to provide such logistical support information.

Most any successful market is CREATED, it just doesn't wander into
existance. Is there a _demand_ for "Air Taxi"? Preliminary feedback show
there certainly is.





  #33  
Old June 24th 07, 10:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
K Baum
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Posts: 36
Default Even Less Gloom?

On Jun 22, 8:07 pm, Jonathan Goodish wrote:
America works best when you say "Yes, Union. Yes!"


It may work best for YOU, but not for the consumer.


not true. It is too simplistic to blame consumer issues on organized
labor.


Personally, I have no problem with employees who want to organize.


Amen brother!

However, I do have a problem with the huge bias of labor laws toward the
unions that shut out competition (non-union workers). Unions are
nothing but big corporations that sell a service--labor--and are granted
a government monopoly when workers vote to become represented by a
union.


You are assuming closed shop negotiations. Why should non union
workers ride the coatails of the union guys?

It's a lose-lose between the consumers who have to pay more, and
the high-quality union workers who cannot be rewarded based on merit.


why are you assuming consumers lose? Let me explain, I have been union
for 16 years (ALPA), and just the safety issues that ALPA has
addressed in this time has been worth the cost of my dues. Would you
trust the FAA to implement safety inititaves by themselves? Look at
the recent crap that went on at Jet Blue (Duty time violations). That
would have never happened at an ALPA carrier. If you are paying a
little extra for a ticket, you can rest assured the added level of
safety is worth it. Now how does the consumer lose here?

For the unions themselves, the lazy union workers (of which there are
many), it's a win, at least until the company you work for goes bankrupt.


Ah, the old "Blame labor for management follies". A quick look at
recent airline bankruptcies will put this one to bed.

JKG


Respectfully, KB

  #34  
Old June 25th 07, 12:47 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
john hawkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 69
Default Even Less Gloom?

Hey! We have the best government can buy ( quote mark twain). Even the tree
huggers have learned its better to buy the property than to wine at the
government and hope they will pass bills to save the tree.
Found a group of like minded hotel entrepreneurs who can " support" local
politicians to get some government welfare for all of you


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
Snip
..

That's 500 gummint-built hotel rooms, in this itty-bitty market. Not
that I blame the guys who got it -- hey, I'd take it, too -- but the
fact that it is available to those who "bought" the biggest politician
really, REALLY sucks.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



  #35  
Old June 25th 07, 02:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jay Honeck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,573
Default Even Less Gloom?

Found a group of like minded hotel entrepreneurs who can " support" local
politicians to get some government welfare for all of you


The thought of sucking from the gummint teat sickens me, quite
frankly. I'd rather close.

No, we'll just keep on being the best damned hotel in the market.
None of their stupid gummint welfare can change the fact that most
hotels just plain suck at customer service -- and THAT is our big
edge.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

  #36  
Old June 25th 07, 03:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 897
Default Even Less Gloom?

The thought of sucking from the gummint teat sickens me, quite
frankly. I'd rather close.


Oh?

That's 500 gummint-built hotel rooms, in this itty-bitty market. Not
that I blame the guys who got it -- hey, I'd take it, too --


Hmmmm.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #37  
Old June 25th 07, 03:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 897
Default Even Less Gloom?

What's the difference between that and airport subsidies? In both
cases, the idea is that the added commerce brought to the area offsets
the direct costs.


In theory, there is a codified process that any airport grants must go
through. This supposedly weeds out the unworthy or unnecessary.

I've not seen any "cast in stone" procedures for obtaining corporate
welfare. Often the deciding factor seems to be "Who gave whom the
biggest political donation" during the last election...


The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is
no difference. In practice, there is. This "codified process" sure
didn't save Meigs (and it's the same coming and going). "Who gave whom"
seems to be the way things work in business too.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #38  
Old June 25th 07, 01:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jay Honeck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,573
Default Even Less Gloom?

The thought of sucking from the gummint teat sickens me, quite
frankly. I'd rather close.


Oh?

That's 500 gummint-built hotel rooms, in this itty-bitty market. Not
that I blame the guys who got it -- hey, I'd take it, too --


Hmmmm.


A moment of hyperbole, I'm afraid. Just trying to make myself feel
better by justifying the dishonorable acts of the corporate whores.

I've never taken any money from the gummint, for anything. Don't like
banks much, either, although they are occasionally necessary.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

  #39  
Old June 25th 07, 03:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Matt Barrow[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,119
Default Even Less Gloom?


"K Baum" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 22, 8:07 pm, Jonathan Goodish wrote:
America works best when you say "Yes, Union. Yes!"


It may work best for YOU, but not for the consumer.


not true. It is too simplistic to blame consumer issues on organized
labor.


That's not the point he's making (that it's _strictly_ union caused).



Personally, I have no problem with employees who want to organize.


Amen brother!

However, I do have a problem with the huge bias of labor laws toward the
unions that shut out competition (non-union workers). Unions are
nothing but big corporations that sell a service--labor--and are granted
a government monopoly when workers vote to become represented by a
union.


You are assuming closed shop negotiations. Why should non union
workers ride the coatails of the union guys?


Maybe because they're typically a bunch of thugs who do generate a few
bennies at a obscene cost?


It's a lose-lose between the consumers who have to pay more, and
the high-quality union workers who cannot be rewarded based on merit.


why are you assuming consumers lose? Let me explain, I have been union
for 16 years (ALPA), and just the safety issues that ALPA has
addressed in this time has been worth the cost of my dues. Would you
trust the FAA to implement safety inititaves by themselves?


Yes.

How many have ALPA rejected in terms of "full employment"?

Look at
the recent crap that went on at Jet Blue (Duty time violations). That
would have never happened at an ALPA carrier.



Absolute BS.

If you are paying a
little extra for a ticket, you can rest assured the added level of
safety is worth it. Now how does the consumer lose here?


By assuming the unions are interested primarily in safety.


For the unions themselves, the lazy union workers (of which there are
many), it's a win, at least until the company you work for goes bankrupt.


Ah, the old "Blame labor for management follies". A quick look at
recent airline bankruptcies will put this one to bed.


Oh, like United?




  #40  
Old June 25th 07, 03:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Matt Barrow[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,119
Default Even Less Gloom?


"john hawkins" wrote in message
. net...
Hey! We have the best government can buy ( quote mark twain). Even the
tree huggers have learned its better to buy the property than to wine at
the government and hope they will pass bills to save the tree.


Actually, they found it's better to let the government confiscate the trees.

Found a group of like minded hotel entrepreneurs who can " support" local
politicians to get some government welfare for all of you


Everyone lining up at the government trough.

OINK! OINK!


 




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