preparing for commercial oral and practical

Hey, all. I'm getting ready for my commercial checkride. I've read the
Jeppeson PTS et al but I'd really like to hear what kinds of things people
have experienced in the oral and practical sections recently; mainly just to
see if I could hit whatever is pitched at me.

Obviously I'm expecting the "what can you do with a commercial rating"
discussion, but the DE is new to the FBO so nobody knows what kinds of
things he might throw at us.

Anybody want to share experiences?

-c

On May 11, 1:45 pm, "gatt" wrote:
Hey, all. I'm getting ready for my commercial checkride. I've read the
Jeppeson PTS et al but I'd really like to hear what kinds of things people
have experienced in the oral and practical sections recently; mainly just to
see if I could hit whatever is pitched at me.

Obviously I'm expecting the "what can you do with a commercial rating"
discussion, but the DE is new to the FBO so nobody knows what kinds of
things he might throw at us.

Anybody want to share experiences?

-c

Make sure you know everything on the private oral, but in more detail.
I remember having to do a complicated W+B calculation, along with a
precise fuel burn, time to climb, takeoff distance, etc. Know the
difference between private carriage, common carriage, and holding out.
(hint: only one of the three is not allowed with just a commercial).
You'll be doing at least part of the checkride in a complex airplane,
so know how the prop governor and landing gear works.

I don't remember much if any instrument questions were asked, but he
is allowed to ask you any questions relating to a rating you already
have. So if you have an instrument rating and you have no idea what an
ILS is, he can fail you.

The practical is just like the private, except you do the commercial
maneuvers instead of the basic private ones (turns around a point, s-
turns, etc). I personally didn't do stalls (the bonanza I did it in
has very harsh stalling characteristics so he didn't have me do any),
but I did do all the commercial maneuvers, slow flight, and steep
turns. Expect one odd ball thrown in, such as a manual gear extension,
emergency descent, or a prop overspeed.

Google Groups Advanced search in rec.aviation* will be your friend. Some
great posts during the period when Cecil Chapman worked through his
Commercial training.

Part 119.1 know that you're not looking in part 91 for these limitations.

The intricacy's of weight and balance similar to the knowledge test
questions. Load, fly, unload, fly, refuel, load, fly unload, refuel....
what's your weight, where's your CG, what about if you have to hold, when
will you reach bingo fuel and where will your CG be then? Talk to a Bonanza
owner about CG changes with fuel burn.

Spins. Study Rich Stowell's books, charts, and videos. The best I've ever
found to explain exactly what is happening during a spin. Be able to have
an in depth discussion of spins and L/D. Use FAA vernacular directly from
the FAA handbooks. Some DE's insist that in the FAA world, there are NO
other sources of information. Sad.

Required inspections. Get your hands on the log books for your test
airplane. Research all the AD's, know the recurring and single event AD's.
Print them out, put them in a 3 ring binder. Later, when you take your CFI
oral, this will pay huge dividends and save a lot of questioning. Know what
criteria your airplane must meet in order for you to operate it both
privately and commercially. Prove, through the use of the log books, that
the airplane is current and appropriate for the checkride. What about SB's?
Does your airplane need to comply? Why or why not?

Stress, re-stress, and over-stress passenger safety!! Show your DE that
above all you will use good judgment when approached with a commercial ops
proposition.

Understand and be able to explain "holding out". It gets beat to death, but
being able to accurately and completely explain it can be tricky. Use
blatant examples, don't get lead down a path into questionable areas, when
in doubt answer with "if I had any question or reservation what so ever, I'd
defer to someone like you (DE) or the FSDO and if I couldn't I'd refuse the
job". Don't dig yourself into a hole. Remember "favors" towards others
that you benefit by, even if they only secure a relationship with the other
party can and have been considered commercial ops.

Along those lines... don't use any terms that you can not fully explain.
This is a great way to dig yourself into a deep hole. Keep your answers
straight and to the point.

What's the first thing that you do if your landing gear fails to extend?
Fly the airplane. What's the 2nd? Fly the airplane. The 3rd? Relax. The
4th.... get the checklist out. Do NOT on a commercial check ride try to do
anything from memory. The checklist is your ticket. Without it, you WILL
fail.

Talk, talk, talk. Your DE will want to see your knowledge of each maneuver.
Tell him what you and the airplane are doing. Tell him why things aren't
going like they should, tell him what you should be doing and how to do it
and how the airplane will respond. If you do these things, your maneuver
can look like hell, but you've proven your knowledge of the maneuver, which
is what he wants to see.

Systems. Know your airplane's systems inside out and upside down. Talk to
an A&P about your airplane. Read the maintenance manuals. Know how
specific failures effect each system and how to identify those failures.

Minimum equipment lists. Does your airplane have one? Probably not, but
know what you can fly without and what to do if you have inop equipment.
Make SURE everything either works, or is a non-essential item and labeled
inop before your DE discovers it!

Pre flights... what do you check, why do you check it, how do you identify a
discrepancy and how come you're not using a checklist for the preflight?
What happens when you have a larger airplane? Use a checklist. Safety.

FAA Hotbutton issues. Know what the FAA has been hounding DE's about
lately. Runway incursions? Airport Hot Spots? Land and hold short ops?

As you can see, there are many areas to study. The main thing to keep in
the front of your head is that you are asking him to approve your abilities,
knowledge, judgment and decision making on a commercial pilot level. That
means that you want him to tell you that you can work in a position that
entrusts upon you the lives of innocent passengers who have no knowledge of
you or your examiners opinion of you. Those passengers are putting their
faith in you based upon his decision. Safety must be paramount.

Good luck, have fun. The commercial checkride is usually one of the easier
rides. I'm sure you'll do fine. Please let us know how it goes!
Jim

On May 11, 1:45 pm, "gatt" wrote:
Hey, all. I'm getting ready for my commercial checkride. I've read the
Jeppeson PTS et al but I'd really like to hear what kinds of things people
have experienced in the oral and practical sections recently; mainly just to
see if I could hit whatever is pitched at me.

Obviously I'm expecting the "what can you do with a commercial rating"
discussion, but the DE is new to the FBO so nobody knows what kinds of
things he might throw at us.

Anybody want to share experiences?

-c

That's always tough when you are the first student for the CFI's use
of the DE. I always require the DE go fly with me before I send
students to the DE so I can see what type of guy he is. You always
want to avoid sending your students to unknown DE's when possible, but
somtimes schedules can affect that.

First, there will be no instrument questions (other than the
limitations of a non-instrument rated commerical pilot). Expect to get
a lot of questions about the limitations of a commercial pilot
operating under part 91 (i.e. what you cannot do w/o being 135).
Expect some of those situations to get pretty complicated (i.e. you
start out on a local photography flight, the photographer asks you if
you'll drop him off at point X rather than back at the airport).

-Robert, CFII

"buttman" wrote in message
oups.com...

The practical is just like the private, except you do the commercial
maneuvers instead of the basic private ones (turns around a point, s-
turns, etc). I personally didn't do stalls (the bonanza I did it in
has very harsh stalling characteristics so he didn't have me do any),
but I did do all the commercial maneuvers, slow flight, and steep
turns. Expect one odd ball thrown in, such as a manual gear extension,
emergency descent, or a prop overspeed.

Perfect! Thanks.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...

Expect some of those situations to get pretty complicated (i.e. you
start out on a local photography flight, the photographer asks you if
you'll drop him off at point X rather than back at the airport).

Would answering "Not unless you have a parachute" get me in trouble? ;

Thanks, everybody!

-c

Top posting for brevity: Thanks, Jim, and everybody else. This is exactly
what I was hoping for just so I don't forget about something obvious.
Have a safe and glorious weekend, all!

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...

[...snipped and saved. ]

Jim Burns wrote:

Pre flights... what do you check, why do you check it, how do you identify a
discrepancy and how come you're not using a checklist for the preflight?
What happens when you have a larger airplane? Use a checklist. Safety.

This is interesting as I watch a lot of airline pilots do their
preflight and I've NEVER seen one carry a checklist. A flashlight, but
never a checklist. Personally, I like the Navy approach to checklists.
Execute the list from memory and then "check" it with the checklist.
That way in an emergency you know the procedures and can do them
instantly and come back when things are more under control and check
what you've done.

I realize the FAA doesn't agree with this, but it makes a lot more sense
to me than fumbling for a checklist when the prop is windmilling and you
are descending at 800 fpm towards hostile terrain.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...


This is interesting as I watch a lot of airline pilots do their preflight
and I've NEVER seen one carry a checklist. A flashlight, but never a
checklist. Personally, I like the Navy approach to checklists. Execute
the list from memory and then "check" it with the checklist.

This ought to be its own thread, esp in r.a.s. The previous DE was a
checklist fanatic so I was told that when I leveled off I better have
flipped the checklist to CRUISE and on the way back to the field, I better
have gone through the DESCENT checklist and be ready for LANDING.

I guess for pre-flight, I use the Navy approach, largely because I look for
stuff beyond what's on the checklist itself but I also glance at the list at
each position around the plane. Then, before the walkaround, I stand at the
nose, look at the airplane, check the preflight checklist one last time.

I realize the FAA doesn't agree with this, but it makes a lot more sense
to me than fumbling for a checklist when the prop is windmilling and you
are descending at 800 fpm towards hostile terrain.

Yep. I try to be proficient at both but solely reliant on neither. I'm
already working on memorizing it so if he says to do something I can flip to
the page, recite it from memory and double-check. That ought to be
reasonable; otherwise, you'd have to look at the list every time you did a
GUMPS check.

-c

"gatt" wrote in
:


Hey, all. I'm getting ready for my commercial checkride. I've read
the Jeppeson PTS et al but I'd really like to hear what kinds of
things people have experienced in the oral and practical sections
recently; mainly just to see if I could hit whatever is pitched at me.

Obviously I'm expecting the "what can you do with a commercial rating"
discussion, but the DE is new to the FBO so nobody knows what kinds of
things he might throw at us.

Anybody want to share experiences?

-c


Know how the landing gear work as well as how the propeller works. Those
were important for my checkride oral.

Good luck! I'm sure you'll do just fine.


Barry
CP-ASEL-IA
AGI
CFI-candidate
FAASTeam Representative