Why don't airlines also do charter jets?

"Ron Natalie" wrote

Wasn't just the teamsters. Ever read Harry Hill's books. The mob
used JFK as their personal one-stop shopping for larceny.

I thought that they were one-and-the-same. :-)

My father was counsel to Martin Shugrue in the Eastern bankruptcy
days and I believe in the "new Pan Am" days as well.

Marty was an acquaintence of mine, perhaps just a little bit lower
on the pilot's seniority list than I was. An ex-marine aviator as
I recall. During the furloughs, I went off flying and chief-piloting
at Air Florida, Arrow Air, etc. while Marty hired into an office-boy
job in PanAm operations and from there, worked up to be president of
PanAm.
He passed away a few years back....was much younger than I.

Bob Moore

"Robert Moore" wrote in message . 6...

He passed away a few years back....was much younger than I.

Being at the helm of a couple of sinking ships can wear you down
pretty hard. You might find Jack E. Robinson's book on the collapse
of Eastern interesting reading.

United started getting into the fractional ownership business a couple of
years ago. They ordered a number of Dassault Falcons and had even started
hiring pilots, if I remember correctly. I know a couple of people who were
interested in working there. The company was called Avolar.

United's timing was really bad. They were doing this at a time when the
company was in really bad shape financially. The unions also made it
pretty difficult. United wanted to keep the pilot pools separated, which
would probably keep costs down because those pilots and flight attendants
would likely have been paid significantly less than United pilots and
flight attendants. The unions insisted that the aircraft be crewed by
United pilots and flight attendants.

Avolar is no more, although United still owns the avolar.com domain. They
used to have a web site, but that domain now points to united.com.

--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA

In article ,
Robert Moore wrote:

When I joined PanAm in 1967, in addition to being the world's
largest international aircarrier, it was also the world's
largest charter aircarrier and the world's largest cargo air-
carrier. The 30 B-707 freighters were sold when the B-747s
arrived starting in 1970. The theory being that in addition
to a full load of passengers, the 747 belly would hold a load
of cargo equivalent to a 707. Unfortunately, the companies
that bought the freighters could afford to fly freight much
cheaper than could PanAm. The Teamster cargo handlers at JFK
didn't help the situation either, they stole at least 10% of
everything that passed through the JFK cargo terminal.

One of our "standing" charters was flying the presidential press
corp when they followed the president. We had about a dozen
selected flight attendants just for those flights.

Pretty much the same at AAL too. There was a 727 dedicated to the
campaign of RFK for months until he was killed. Guess who never got paid.

The JFK situation was the same for AAL.

Back in those days, a charter was considered an exception to the closed
cockpit door rules and it was left open the whole time.

Sports charters were and are common. Sometimes a random crew, other
times a dedicated crew.

--
Ron

Scott T. Jensen wrote:
This evening, I watched a documentary on TV about the rise of private jets.
During it, they talked about the rise of charter jet companies. These being
companies from whom you can charter a private jet from a one-time use to
something along the lines of a time-share. Anyway, what struck me odd was
that no airline company ... not even small ones ... are in the private jet
charter business. I've seen other TV programs about private jets or where
they're at least talked about for a bit and none of these ever mentioned
airlines getting into the charter jet business ... or even why they're not
in them. Why aren't they?

To me it would seem to be a logical side division for the airlines to get
into. I'd just treat it as one step up from first class seats. Coach
Business First Class Private Jet. Additionally, they could possibly
take advantage of the quantity discount they get on jet fuel for these
private jets.

Or are they currently in this business and the programs I've been catching
either didn't think it was important enough to mention or didn't know this?

Or are the airlines prohibited from going into the charter jet business by
the FAA?

Or is charter jets nothing like airlines so there could be no synergy
savings?

Or is the charter jet business so much of a roller-coaster type of a
business sector that it would lose the airlines money?

If no airline currently is in the charter jet business, have they ever even
given it a try? If so, I'd enjoy hearing how it went and why they left it.

Thanks in advance!

Scott Jensen

Northwest does do charter services. My wife runs a string orchestra
program for gifted Middle School age children. We will be chartering a
Northwest B757 to travel from MDT to MSP to take 160 students and adult
chaperones for a performance at the Music Educators National Conference
in April. As it happens one of the dads flys for Northwest and will be
flying our charter. Kinda cool. This ASEL PP will even be allowed to
jump seat in the cockpit.

Arnold Sten

Airlines with large aircraft operating under 14 CFR 121 operate in three
arenas. Domestic, Flag, and Supplemental. Supplemental is the FAR 121
equivalent of charter. Operators of smaller aircraft operating under 14 CFR
135 tend to be either scheduled or on demand. On demand is charter.

All the other points in this thread are valid. Specialization tends to be
more rewarding than being generalized. The frenzy of the 70s and 80s to have
companies do everything for everyone didn't achieve much general benefit to
those companies nor the consumers, and those companies have spent the last
10 years divesting themselves of those acquisitions.

Simon

You don't even want to begin comparing the level of customer service at
an airline to a charter provider. If charters treated their customers
the way airlines do, the charter would be in business long.

EDR wrote:

You don't even want to begin comparing the level of customer service at
an airline to a charter provider. If charters treated their customers
the way airlines do, the charter would be in business long.

All you have to do is pay to fly first class on the airline. They
generally trip over themselves to be nice to you. It's all about money.

Where I am , the teams visiting the Patriots or visa versa fly out of
Providence and always use one of the major carriers.
We like it when they use our Airline, because they always have the best food
, that's never touched.Downside is they are the biggest slobs.


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"Scott T. Jensen" wrote in message
...
This evening, I watched a documentary on TV about the rise of private
jets.
During it, they talked about the rise of charter jet companies. These
being
companies from whom you can charter a private jet from a one-time use to
something along the lines of a time-share. Anyway, what struck me odd was
that no airline company ... not even small ones ... are in the private jet
charter business. I've seen other TV programs about private jets or where
they're at least talked about for a bit and none of these ever mentioned
airlines getting into the charter jet business ... or even why they're not
in them. Why aren't they?

To me it would seem to be a logical side division for the airlines to get
into. I'd just treat it as one step up from first class seats. Coach
Business First Class Private Jet. Additionally, they could possibly
take advantage of the quantity discount they get on jet fuel for these
private jets.

Or are they currently in this business and the programs I've been catching
either didn't think it was important enough to mention or didn't know
this?

Or are the airlines prohibited from going into the charter jet business by
the FAA?

Or is charter jets nothing like airlines so there could be no synergy
savings?

Or is the charter jet business so much of a roller-coaster type of a
business sector that it would lose the airlines money?

If no airline currently is in the charter jet business, have they ever
even
given it a try? If so, I'd enjoy hearing how it went and why they left
it.

Thanks in advance!

Scott Jensen
--
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