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Mid-air glider accidents
I have been at NTSB web pages trying to find data on glider mid-air
accidents. Not successful. Can anyone help me? -- Mike I Green MG |
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Mid-air glider accidents
On Mar 16, 5:29*pm, Mike I Green wrote:
I have been at NTSB web pages trying to find data on glider mid-air accidents. * Not successful. Can anyone help me? -- Mike I Green *MG You can do a search of the database for all glider accidents and have to reduce the data from there, one of the columns should indicate, midair or other type. Are you looking for glider on glider? Glider vs. tow? Glider vs other powered aircraft? T |
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Mid-air glider accidents
On 3/16/2012 7:02 PM, T wrote:
On Mar 16, 5:29 pm, Mike I wrote: I have been at NTSB web pages trying to find data on glider mid-air accidents. Not successful. Can anyone help me? -- Mike I Green MG You can do a search of the database for all glider accidents and have to reduce the data from there, one of the columns should indicate, midair or other type. Are you looking for glider on glider? Glider vs. tow? Glider vs other powered aircraft? T Hi T, I was hoping to do a search on glider on glider mid-airs, by year. I don't have time to look at every accident report from the 60's to the present. Thanks anyway, MG -- Mike I Green |
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Mid-air glider accidents
On Mar 16, 5:29*pm, Mike I Green wrote:
I have been at NTSB web pages trying to find data on glider mid-air accidents. * Not successful. Can anyone help me? -- Mike I Green *MG Given my great respect for Mighty Gorilla, I figured I'd give it a shot. The NTSB database does not have a direct way of identifying midair collisions, so I took the indirect approach of writing a program to find sets of incidents with matching dates and locations, which yielded roughly 2500 records. I tossed out those prior to 1982, as the records get a bit wonky. Aircraft category is often omitted or incorrect, so the only option was to look through the remaining ~1200 records for glider-sounding names. I may have missed a few, but I pretty much found all of ones I remember. I found 15 collisions glider with glider, 5 glider with tow plane, and 6 glider with other airplanes, resulting in 22 fatalities. First column is NTSB accident number for one of the aircraft involved (not necessarily a glider): Glider with glider CEN10LA459A 08/04/2010 Batesville, TX SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS-2B ALEXANDER SCHLEICHER GMBH & CO ASW 27-18 WPR10LA294B 06/15/2010 Parowan, UT SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS 2CT SCHLEICHER ALEXANDER GMBH & CO ASH 26 E DEN08LA137A 08/09/2008 Brackettville, TX Schempp-Hirth Ventus 2A AB Sportine Aviacija Genesis 2 SEA04LA063A 04/01/2004 Oso, WA Glasflugel STD Libelle 201B Glaser- Dirks DG-400 IAD99FA041A 05/01/1999 HILLTOWN, PA Cessna 305A Burkhart Grob G-103 TWIN II FTW96FA279A 06/29/1996 BOULDER, CO PREVATT RV-6 Burkhart Grob G103C TWIN III ACRO FTW91FA131A 07/31/1991 MEDINA, TX SCHEMPP-HIRTH DISCUS-B PZL-Mielec 55-1 CHI91FA212A 07/07/1991 HINCKLEY, IL CENTRAIR PEGASUS 101B SLINGSBY KESTREL 19 SEA88LA128A 07/12/1988 MINDEN, NV Schempp-Hirth DISCUS B Schempp-Hirth DISCUS A NYC88LA125A 04/09/1988 FAIRFIELD, PA SCHLEICHER ASW-20 SCHLEICHER ASW-20 ATL88LA149A 04/22/1988 CHESTER, SC Rolladen-Schneider LS-4 Cirrus Design Corp. STANDARD NYC86FA114A 04/28/1986 JULIAN, PA Glaser-Dirks DIRK-DG-400 SCHWEIZER SGS-1-26B SEA84FA172A 07/12/1984 EPHRATA, WA Schempp-Hirth VENTUS A SCHLEICHER ASW 20 B SEA84LA159A 07/03/1984 EPHRATA, WA APPLEBAY SAILPLANES ZUNI II SCHLEICHER ASW-20 LAX83FA242A 05/22/1983 BRIDGEPORT, CA Schempp-Hirth STANDARD CIRRUS SCHEMPP-HIRTH STANDARD CIRRUS LAX82DA335A 09/05/1982 CALIFORNIA CITY, CA SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS SCHLEICHER ASW-20 LAX82FA136B 04/15/1982 TULARE, CA BURKHART GROB FLUGZEUGBAH SPEED ASTIR II SCHLEICHER ASW-20 Glider with tow plane WPR10FA068A 11/28/2009 Middletown, CA SCHLEICHER ASW-27 PIPER PA-25-235 LAX08LA254A 08/02/2008 Jean, NV SCHWEIZER SGS 2-33A PIPER PA-25-235 LAX87LA224A 05/30/1987 FREMONT, CA BELLANCA 7KCAB SCHWEIZER SGS 2-32 CHI84FA225A 06/09/1984 STANTON, MN SCHLEICHER AS-K13 PIPER PA-18A Glider with other airplane LAX06FA277A 08/28/2006 Smith, NV Raytheon Hawker 800XP Schleicher ASW27-18 LAX99LA204A 05/30/1999 MESA, AZ Cessna 172P HOAC Austria HK 36R SUPER DIMONA ANC04FA016A 12/28/2003 Peoria, AZ Piper J3C-65 Schleicher ASK-21 MIA99LA051A 12/19/1998 OKEECHOBEE, FL Cessna 172M Let L-13 LAX86MA186A 04/20/1986 WARNER SPRINGS, CA LTV AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES A7E Rolladen-Schneider LS-4 Marc |
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Mid-air glider accidents
On Mar 16, 11:34*pm, Marc wrote:
On Mar 16, 5:29*pm, Mike I Green wrote: I have been at NTSB web pages trying to find data on glider mid-air accidents. * Not successful. Can anyone help me? -- Mike I Green *MG Given my great respect for Mighty Gorilla, I figured I'd give it a shot. *The NTSB database does not have a direct way of identifying midair collisions, so I took the indirect approach of writing a program to find sets of incidents with matching dates and locations, which yielded roughly 2500 records. *I tossed out those prior to 1982, as the records get a bit wonky. *Aircraft category is often omitted or incorrect, so the only option was to look through the remaining ~1200 records for glider-sounding names. *I may have missed a few, but I pretty much found all of ones I remember. *I found 15 collisions glider with glider, 5 glider with tow plane, and 6 glider with other airplanes, resulting in 22 fatalities. *First column is NTSB accident number for one of the aircraft involved (not necessarily a glider): Wrong version of the list, try again: Glider with glider CEN10LA459A 08/04/2010 Batesville, TX SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS-2B ALEXANDER SCHLEICHER GMBH & CO ASW 27-18 WPR10LA294B 06/15/2010 Parowan, UT SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS 2CT SCHLEICHER ALEXANDER GMBH & CO ASH 26 E DEN08LA137A 08/09/2008 Brackettville, TX Schempp-Hirth Ventus 2A AB Sportine Aviacija Genesis 2 SEA04LA063A 04/01/2004 Oso, WA Glasflugel STD Libelle 201B Glaser- Dirks DG-400 FTW91FA131A 07/31/1991 MEDINA, TX SCHEMPP-HIRTH DISCUS-B PZL-Mielec 55-1 CHI91FA212A 07/07/1991 HINCKLEY, IL CENTRAIR PEGASUS 101B SLINGSBY KESTREL 19 SEA88LA128A 07/12/1988 MINDEN, NV Schempp-Hirth DISCUS B Schempp-Hirth DISCUS A NYC88LA125A 04/09/1988 FAIRFIELD, PA SCHLEICHER ASW-20 SCHLEICHER ASW-20 ATL88LA149A 04/22/1988 CHESTER, SC Rolladen-Schneider LS-4 Cirrus Design Corp. STANDARD NYC86FA114A 04/28/1986 JULIAN, PA Glaser-Dirks DIRK-DG-400 SCHWEIZER SGS-1-26B SEA84FA172A 07/12/1984 EPHRATA, WA Schempp-Hirth VENTUS A SCHLEICHER ASW 20 B SEA84LA159A 07/03/1984 EPHRATA, WA APPLEBAY SAILPLANES ZUNI II SCHLEICHER ASW-20 LAX83FA242A 05/22/1983 BRIDGEPORT, CA Schempp-Hirth STANDARD CIRRUS SCHEMPP-HIRTH STANDARD CIRRUS LAX82DA335A 09/05/1982 CALIFORNIA CITY, CA SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS SCHLEICHER ASW-20 LAX82FA136B 04/15/1982 TULARE, CA BURKHART GROB FLUGZEUGBAH SPEED ASTIR II SCHLEICHER ASW-20 Glider with tow plane WPR10FA068A 11/28/2009 Middletown, CA SCHLEICHER ASW-27 PIPER PA-25-235 LAX08LA254A 08/02/2008 Jean, NV SCHWEIZER SGS 2-33A PIPER PA-25-235 IAD99FA041A 05/01/1999 HILLTOWN, PA Cessna 305A Burkhart Grob G-103 TWIN II LAX87LA224A 05/30/1987 FREMONT, CA BELLANCA 7KCAB SCHWEIZER SGS 2-32 CHI84FA225A 06/09/1984 STANTON, MN SCHLEICHER AS-K13 PIPER PA-18A Glider with other airplane LAX06FA277A 08/28/2006 Smith, NV Raytheon Hawker 800XP Schleicher ASW27-18 LAX99LA204A 05/30/1999 MESA, AZ Cessna 172P HOAC Austria HK 36R SUPER DIMONA ANC04FA016A 12/28/2003 Peoria, AZ Piper J3C-65 Schleicher ASK-21 MIA99LA051A 12/19/1998 OKEECHOBEE, FL Cessna 172M Let L-13 FTW96FA279A 06/29/1996 BOULDER, CO PREVATT RV-6 Burkhart Grob G103C TWIN III ACRO LAX86MA186A 04/20/1986 WARNER SPRINGS, CA LTV AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES A7E Rolladen-Schneider LS-4 |
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Mid-air glider accidents
On 3/16/2012 11:45 PM, Marc wrote:
On Mar 16, 11:34 pm, wrote: On Mar 16, 5:29 pm, Mike I wrote: I have been at NTSB web pages trying to find data on glider mid-air accidents. Not successful. Can anyone help me? -- Mike I Green MG Given my great respect for Mighty Gorilla, I figured I'd give it a shot. The NTSB database does not have a direct way of identifying midair collisions, so I took the indirect approach of writing a program to find sets of incidents with matching dates and locations, which yielded roughly 2500 records. I tossed out those prior to 1982, as the records get a bit wonky. Aircraft category is often omitted or incorrect, so the only option was to look through the remaining ~1200 records for glider-sounding names. I may have missed a few, but I pretty much found all of ones I remember. I found 15 collisions glider with glider, 5 glider with tow plane, and 6 glider with other airplanes, resulting in 22 fatalities. First column is NTSB accident number for one of the aircraft involved (not necessarily a glider): Wrong version of the list, try again: Glider with glider CEN10LA459A 08/04/2010 Batesville, TX SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS-2B ALEXANDER SCHLEICHER GMBH& CO ASW 27-18 WPR10LA294B 06/15/2010 Parowan, UT SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS 2CT SCHLEICHER ALEXANDER GMBH& CO ASH 26 E DEN08LA137A 08/09/2008 Brackettville, TX Schempp-Hirth Ventus 2A AB Sportine Aviacija Genesis 2 SEA04LA063A 04/01/2004 Oso, WA Glasflugel STD Libelle 201B Glaser- Dirks DG-400 FTW91FA131A 07/31/1991 MEDINA, TX SCHEMPP-HIRTH DISCUS-B PZL-Mielec 55-1 CHI91FA212A 07/07/1991 HINCKLEY, IL CENTRAIR PEGASUS 101B SLINGSBY KESTREL 19 SEA88LA128A 07/12/1988 MINDEN, NV Schempp-Hirth DISCUS B Schempp-Hirth DISCUS A NYC88LA125A 04/09/1988 FAIRFIELD, PA SCHLEICHER ASW-20 SCHLEICHER ASW-20 ATL88LA149A 04/22/1988 CHESTER, SC Rolladen-Schneider LS-4 Cirrus Design Corp. STANDARD NYC86FA114A 04/28/1986 JULIAN, PA Glaser-Dirks DIRK-DG-400 SCHWEIZER SGS-1-26B SEA84FA172A 07/12/1984 EPHRATA, WA Schempp-Hirth VENTUS A SCHLEICHER ASW 20 B SEA84LA159A 07/03/1984 EPHRATA, WA APPLEBAY SAILPLANES ZUNI II SCHLEICHER ASW-20 LAX83FA242A 05/22/1983 BRIDGEPORT, CA Schempp-Hirth STANDARD CIRRUS SCHEMPP-HIRTH STANDARD CIRRUS LAX82DA335A 09/05/1982 CALIFORNIA CITY, CA SCHEMPP-HIRTH VENTUS SCHLEICHER ASW-20 LAX82FA136B 04/15/1982 TULARE, CA BURKHART GROB FLUGZEUGBAH SPEED ASTIR II SCHLEICHER ASW-20 Glider with tow plane WPR10FA068A 11/28/2009 Middletown, CA SCHLEICHER ASW-27 PIPER PA-25-235 LAX08LA254A 08/02/2008 Jean, NV SCHWEIZER SGS 2-33A PIPER PA-25-235 IAD99FA041A 05/01/1999 HILLTOWN, PA Cessna 305A Burkhart Grob G-103 TWIN II LAX87LA224A 05/30/1987 FREMONT, CA BELLANCA 7KCAB SCHWEIZER SGS 2-32 CHI84FA225A 06/09/1984 STANTON, MN SCHLEICHER AS-K13 PIPER PA-18A Glider with other airplane LAX06FA277A 08/28/2006 Smith, NV Raytheon Hawker 800XP Schleicher ASW27-18 LAX99LA204A 05/30/1999 MESA, AZ Cessna 172P HOAC Austria HK 36R SUPER DIMONA ANC04FA016A 12/28/2003 Peoria, AZ Piper J3C-65 Schleicher ASK-21 MIA99LA051A 12/19/1998 OKEECHOBEE, FL Cessna 172M Let L-13 FTW96FA279A 06/29/1996 BOULDER, CO PREVATT RV-6 Burkhart Grob G103C TWIN III ACRO LAX86MA186A 04/20/1986 WARNER SPRINGS, CA LTV AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES A7E Rolladen-Schneider LS-4 Marc - the respect is mutual and thanks. If you need a old winch driver, I am available. MG MG -- Mike I Green |
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Mid-air glider accidents
Here's one mo http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...08X06780&key=2 ...The Aero Commander 690, N840DC, collided with the Grob 102 glider, N22ZB, while climbing through 10,000 feet msl 4 miles south of the airport... Thanks, Bob K. |
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Mid-air glider accidents
On Mar 17, 8:26*am, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
Here's one mo http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...08X06780&key=2 ...The Aero Commander 690, N840DC, collided with the Grob 102 glider, N22ZB, while climbing through 10,000 feet msl 4 miles south of the airport... Absolute brain fade on my part, since I knew the guy. There was another one I missed just below it in my unfiltered list: http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...08X06698&key=1 The list is longer than I would have guessed, although the absolute numbers of glider to glider collisions seem to be dropping as we have fewer large contests. Given the numbers of collisions in general aviation overall, it's quite sad the FAA has done such a crappy job with the ADS-B rollout... Marc |
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Mid-air glider accidents
On Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:21:54 PM UTC-7, Marc wrote:
On Mar 17, 8:26*am, Bob Kuykendall wrote: Here's one mo http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...08X06780&key=2 I'd love to know additional details of the circumstances for each. Particularly factors such as contest or not, major airport nearby or not, in traffic pattern vs climb/descent vs cruise, straight flight vs thermalling, etc. While vigilance is always important it would be great to know if there is any consistent pattern to midairs, even if it's a small number in total. It's particularly useful in terms of driving PowerFlarm adoption. There is some thinking that contest flying represents the highest likelihood of midair per hour flown and that other gliders are the biggest threat. Does the data back up that notion? From my incomplete personal recall of the collisions I know, it would appear that collisions between two gliders in a contest represent something like 20-30% of all midairs. I'd guess contest flying is less than 5% of all glider hours (any real data available?), so that would say that contest flying is at least four times as likely per hour of flight to result in a midair as any other glider flying and the main threat is another contestant. At first blush it appears a solid argument for PowerFlarm rentals focused on contests. Seems like towplanes might benefit too. 9B |
#10
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Mid-air glider accidents
The contest midair situation is better than it looks. There were a
rash of midairs in the 1980s and 1991, then nothing until the recent three. One contributing factor is likely the decline (demise?) of the assigned task. In the 1980s, we all flew together in one big gaggle. Now we fly alone much more often. Interestingly, of the recent three one was on an assigned task, and one was a mandatory MAT turnpoint. Both these involved going in and out of a turnpoint with a nearly 180 degree course change. There is more than Flarm to lowering the risks of midairs in contest flying. And a lot more to midairs than contest flying. John Cochrane |
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