Landing airplanes

Dan Luke wrote:
I think what I'm doing is feeling for ground effect.

Of course you are. But you can't tell someone to feel for ground
effect. I mean you can, but if he's not already doing it, telling him
to do it won't get him any closer. And that's really the issue. When
you have to teach someone to land a new flavor of airplane and you're
not dealing with someone who can feel these things well, you have to
start out procedurally to some extent, to get him close to the right
way. Otherwise you either have to help him on the controls (which
damages confidence and slows the learning process), or there's an awful
lot of wear and tear on the airplane. The people I check out generally
maintain their own airplanes, and don't appreciate the excess wear and
tear.

How much? As much as you had on touchdown? More? Does it matter?
More; it's what I was taught.

There are airplanes where that won't work so well. The most common
example are the Pipers with stabilators (all-flying tails). Too much
back pressure and you stall, banging down the nosewheel. Not awful,
but suboptimal. On the other hand, there are airplanes where you
better apply all the back pressure there is for the rollout (and some
of them are also Pipers).

It certainly seems intuitive in my case. I don't know what I'm doing; I
just do it.

And that's fine until you have to teach someone else to do it.

One of the more challenging things to do in aviation is to check
yourself out in a new aircraft that has handling characteristics
significantly different from any you've flown before. It's certainly
possible to do this - test pilots do it for a living - but it's not
trivial. That's why when I have to check myself out in something new,
I try to talk to as many people who have flown it as possible.
Sometimes that works out well, and sometimes I get bad information.
Usually the bad information comes from some like you - he can fly it,
but he can't really verbalize what he does to make it happen. Got
pretty scary once.

Michael

Dudley Henriques wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...


Yes, I'd love to have the chance to fly with him, but know that will never
happen. I got to shake has hand and chat VERY briefly with him after an
airshow at ELM, probably in the late 70s. I likely will never get closer
to him that that, but watching him fly was simply awesome. He obtained
every bit of performance that was available from the airplane while
remaining within its structural envelope.


Matt


The only thing I ever worried about with Bob's routines was his one wheel
landings. He did them as his "Tennessee Waltz" bit using a variety of
airplanes. He was extremely good at doing it. Performing this maneuver is a
combination of dead accurate drift correction married to a virtual symphony
of cross control flying. It ain't easy to do in any airplane without side
loading the main gear struts. Bob was smooth as butter doing this, but I
have to admit, he raised a lot of eyebrows from some of the P51 guys paying
for their own maintenance :-)
I remember down at Transpo in 1972 at Dulles. I was there taking care of
Miss America for the week when Bob had to make an emergency landing in his
own 51. He put it down on one foot and hardly dinged it, but it wasn't
flyable for the week and this was one HUGE airshow!
I offered Bob the use of Miss A for his demonstration and he gratefully
accepted, but not until I passed on to him a "fervent request" from Howie
Keefe who owned Miss A at the time, for Bob to NOT do any 1 wheel landings
in Miss America!!!
Bob of course complied without question, and I agreed with Howie on this, as
we had just finished a cross country record setting flight in the airplane
and the fuel load was not optimum for Bob's usual performance. The finesse
required to do the 1 wheel landings in a different P51 with a different fuel
load on board might have taxed even the talents of Bob Hoover.
Bob flew a perfect demonstration in Miss A without the 1 wheel landing. :-))
A wonderful guy, and one hell of a P51 driver!!
Dudley Henriques

I think Bob could fly a sheet of plywood. :-)


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...


Yes, I'd love to have the chance to fly with him, but know that will
never happen. I got to shake has hand and chat VERY briefly with him
after an airshow at ELM, probably in the late 70s. I likely will never
get closer to him that that, but watching him fly was simply awesome. He
obtained every bit of performance that was available from the airplane
while remaining within its structural envelope.


Matt


The only thing I ever worried about with Bob's routines was his one wheel
landings. He did them as his "Tennessee Waltz" bit using a variety of
airplanes. He was extremely good at doing it. Performing this maneuver is
a combination of dead accurate drift correction married to a virtual
symphony of cross control flying. It ain't easy to do in any airplane
without side loading the main gear struts. Bob was smooth as butter doing
this, but I have to admit, he raised a lot of eyebrows from some of the
P51 guys paying for their own maintenance :-)
I remember down at Transpo in 1972 at Dulles. I was there taking care of
Miss America for the week when Bob had to make an emergency landing in
his own 51. He put it down on one foot and hardly dinged it, but it
wasn't flyable for the week and this was one HUGE airshow!
I offered Bob the use of Miss A for his demonstration and he gratefully
accepted, but not until I passed on to him a "fervent request" from Howie
Keefe who owned Miss A at the time, for Bob to NOT do any 1 wheel
landings in Miss America!!!
Bob of course complied without question, and I agreed with Howie on this,
as we had just finished a cross country record setting flight in the
airplane and the fuel load was not optimum for Bob's usual performance.
The finesse required to do the 1 wheel landings in a different P51 with a
different fuel load on board might have taxed even the talents of Bob
Hoover.
Bob flew a perfect demonstration in Miss A without the 1 wheel landing.
:-))
A wonderful guy, and one hell of a P51 driver!!
Dudley Henriques

I think Bob could fly a sheet of plywood. :-)


Matt

Not sure if he's flown the Mosquito, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if
he had :-))))
Dudley Henriques

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 20:03:11 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

Not sure if he's flown the Mosquito, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if
he had :-))))
Dudley Henriques

LOL

FYI: My CFI and I were do a run up a few week ago at Wiley Post (KPWA), when I
saw Miss America come in for a landing and taxied off between some hangers. She
seem in good health and petty as ever.

GeorgeC

"karl gruber" wrote in message ...
I had the pleasure of flying with Bob about 4 months ago, to a dedication of a new airport in Idaho.

http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c5/kgr...0__medium_.jpg

Karl
"Curator"
N185KG


The FAA registry lists that Lear as 'experimental' R&D...???...

Factories move airplanes in and out of "experimental"
airworthiness all the time. An aircraft that is used for
R&D (research and development) could be operated on a
Standard airworthiness certificate, but using an
Experimental certificate allows them to exceed gross weight,
CG limits or operate with uncertified systems, as part of
getting certification at higher weights. It gives a "free
hand" to the engineers and sales people.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

".Blueskies." wrote in
message
y.com...
|
| "karl gruber" wrote in message
...
| I had the pleasure of flying with Bob about 4 months ago,
to a dedication of a new airport in Idaho.
|
|
http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c5/kgr...0__medium_.jpg
|
| Karl
| "Curator"
| N185KG
|
|
| The FAA registry lists that Lear as 'experimental'
R&D...???...
|
|

john smith wrote:
How much? As much as you had on touchdown? More? Does it matter?

Any good taildragger pilot can tell you the correct answer... the stick
should be sucked all the way back into your gut on roll out. :-))

I fancy myself at leat a minimally competent taildragger pilot (at
least I've managed to land a few of them, 500 times or so, without
going for a ride) and I agree that at least in the taildraggers I've
flown, that is the way. On the other hand, I've flown a few airplanes
where doing that is a recipe for banging the nosewheel on the ground -
hard.

Michael

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
link.net...

God, I hope that isn't the same Plantation hat he's been sitting on in
the
P51 for the last 30 years. That thing must be falling apart by now. I
think he's worn it since day one. Some of us even had a bet going at one
time that he wore it to bed at night!! :-))
Dudley Henriques

He told me that he now auctions them off and the proceeds go to charity.

Best,
Karl
"Curator"
N185KG

"karl gruber" wrote in message
...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
link.net...

God, I hope that isn't the same Plantation hat he's been sitting on in
the
P51 for the last 30 years. That thing must be falling apart by now. I
think he's worn it since day one. Some of us even had a bet going at one
time that he wore it to bed at night!! :-))
Dudley Henriques

He told me that he now auctions them off and the proceeds go to charity.

Best,
Karl
"Curator"
N185KG

Classy touch from a classy guy :-))
I'm just glad he made it through the gauntlet and can now rest easy out
there in Palos Verdes and enjoy life :-))
Dudley Henriques

Yes, Brent Hisey owns her now. She's been banged up a bit, but I understand
she's ok and doin fine. :-))
Dudley Henriques

"GeorgeC" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 20:03:11 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"

wrote:

Not sure if he's flown the Mosquito, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if
he had :-))))
Dudley Henriques

LOL

FYI: My CFI and I were do a run up a few week ago at Wiley Post (KPWA),
when I
saw Miss America come in for a landing and taxied off between some
hangers. She
seem in good health and petty as ever.

GeorgeC