LiFePo Refit Part 23 AC

Safety....you rationalize that.
FAA.......they’re watching us, the guinea pigs, before committing. So far, nobody's dying. The public safe. Press on.
Insurance....they don’t care unless it caused the accident. And now Lithiums are such an embedded part of our lives, I doubt they care.

I think you’re good to Soar.
R

While not necessarily applicable to your situation, FYI, DG prohibits the use of any Lithium-Ion (even LiFePO4) in the tail compartment of its gliders, which surprised me, and foiled my plans. I suspect they have their reasons.

I don't know if that applies to an LS or not.

Best to check with them on what is allowed in your situation.

On Friday, March 6, 2020 at 5:47:58 PM UTC-7, cdeerinck wrote:
While not necessarily applicable to your situation, FYI, DG prohibits the use of any Lithium-Ion (even LiFePO4) in the tail compartment of its gliders, which surprised me, and foiled my plans. I suspect they have their reasons.

I don't know if that applies to an LS or not.

Best to check with them on what is allowed in your situation.

I wonder if that has as much to do with the weight (tail ballast) as much as it does with the fire hazard.

My LAK-17a had an SLA tail battery and it was needed as ballast. When I
got a LiFePO4 battery, I put it behind the seat and put a block of lead,
which matched the removed battery weight, in the tail.Â* I suppose I
could have simply left the dead battery there and saved some work but I
didn't want to risk it leaking.

On 3/6/2020 5:47 PM, cdeerinck wrote:
While not necessarily applicable to your situation, FYI, DG prohibits the use of any Lithium-Ion (even LiFePO4) in the tail compartment of its gliders, which surprised me, and foiled my plans. I suspect they have their reasons.

I don't know if that applies to an LS or not.

Best to check with them on what is allowed in your situation.

--
Dan, 5J

Oh, and Fidel recommends removing the tail battery before trailering the
glider.Â* It should be apparent why.

On 3/7/2020 9:17 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
My LAK-17a had an SLA tail battery and it was needed as ballast. When
I got a LiFePO4 battery, I put it behind the seat and put a block of
lead, which matched the removed battery weight, in the tail.Â* I
suppose I could have simply left the dead battery there and saved some
work but I didn't want to risk it leaking.

On 3/6/2020 5:47 PM, cdeerinck wrote:
While not necessarily applicable to your situation, FYI, DG prohibits
the use of any Lithium-Ion (even LiFePO4) in the tail compartment of
its gliders, which surprised me, and foiled my plans.Â* I suspect they
have their reasons.

I don't know if that applies to an LS or not.

Best to check with them on what is allowed in your situation.


--
Dan, 5J

From the LAK? Or all gliders? And just lithium batteries, or all types of
batteries? And what is the concern? I've never heard that advice before.

Dan Marotta wrote on 3/7/2020 8:19 AM:
Oh, and Fidel recommends removing the tail battery before trailering the glider.
It should be apparent why.

On 3/7/2020 9:17 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
My LAK-17a had an SLA tail battery and it was needed as ballast. When I got a
LiFePO4 battery, I put it behind the seat and put a block of lead, which matched
the removed battery weight, in the tail.* I suppose I could have simply left the
dead battery there and saved some work but I didn't want to risk it leaking.

On 3/6/2020 5:47 PM, cdeerinck wrote:
While not necessarily applicable to your situation, FYI, DG prohibits the use
of any Lithium-Ion (even LiFePO4) in the tail compartment of its gliders, which
surprised me, and foiled my plans.* I suspect they have their reasons.

I don't know if that applies to an LS or not.

Best to check with them on what is allowed in your situation.




--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

The recommendation is to remove weight which is placed high up in the
tail during road transport.Â* Jostling during trailering adds stress to
the aft fuselage at the base of the fin.Â* He has showed me very fine
cracks in the paint/gel coat.Â* Put simply:Â* Remove tail batteries before
trailering.

On 3/7/2020 10:13 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
From the LAK? Or all gliders? And just lithium batteries, or all types
of batteries? And what is the concern? I've never heard that advice
before.

Dan Marotta wrote on 3/7/2020 8:19 AM:
Oh, and Fidel recommends removing the tail battery before trailering
the glider.Â* It should be apparent why.

On 3/7/2020 9:17 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
My LAK-17a had an SLA tail battery and it was needed as ballast.
When I got a LiFePO4 battery, I put it behind the seat and put a
block of lead, which matched the removed battery weight, in the
tail.Â* I suppose I could have simply left the dead battery there and
saved some work but I didn't want to risk it leaking.

On 3/6/2020 5:47 PM, cdeerinck wrote:
While not necessarily applicable to your situation, FYI, DG
prohibits the use of any Lithium-Ion (even LiFePO4) in the tail
compartment of its gliders, which surprised me, and foiled my
plans.Â* I suspect they have their reasons.

I don't know if that applies to an LS or not.

Best to check with them on what is allowed in your situation.





--
Dan, 5J

Seldom do glider owners care(read) what the regs say about equipment installed. I'm pleased you chased down the documents for your glider battery & looked at FAA guidance. And I'll join the preponderance of folks who get frustrated with regs not being "pertinent" or up-to-date with technology....

But to add a bit to the discussion, IF batteries are on the equipment list when it was weighed, they are not 'optional' payload. They then are considered part of the fixed installation, and glider should have weight placards for minimum solo and max pilot weights based on batteries IN for flight.

No one would argue that the chubby Gil or Concorde battery in the tow plane is 'optional', but it is removable.

For some club ships, with large members who need more payload, the weight & balance and equipment list might be better off with no batteries computed/listed.... and the lighter pilots can treat batteries as removable/installable payload.

I believe the DG restriction lithium of any style was due to an airframe fire.

And I have seen horrific wiring nightmares, and one case of a fuse in the panel allowing a bowed seatpan to short across terminals on the ground. The retired fireman pilot exited like a jackinthebox when I told him the glider was smoking.

Regardless of FAA guidance inflight accessibility of fuses, the origin protection fuse should be very close to a terminal on the battery.

I'll second the recommendation on batteries OUT for trailering. Especially tail fin installs.

Safe soaring,
Cindy B

wrote on 3/12/2020 1:35 AM:
I'll second the recommendation on batteries OUT for trailering. Especially tail fin installs.

Is that based on gel coat cracking (the original reason for removing the tail
battery), the potential for fires caused by the battery while trailering, or to
protect the battery from damage during trailering?

Removing the main batteries from a Schleicher motorglider (ASH 26E and later), and
DG motorgliders is very time-consuming. Since I'm not aware of any problems caused
by leaving the main batteries in during trailering in these gliders, I think
removing and replacing them is likely to cause more problems than it avoids.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

If you are changing from, SLA to lipo the distance from the Cof G is
important .
Just changing the nose battery in a ventus to lipo could make for a very
interesting day.


At 14:43 12 March 2020, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 3/12/2020 1:35 AM:
I'll second the recommendation on batteries OUT for trailering.
Especially tail fin installs.

Is that based on gel coat cracking (the original reason for removing the
tail
battery), the potential for fires caused by the battery while trailering,
or to
protect the battery from damage during trailering?

Removing the main batteries from a Schleicher motorglider (ASH 26E and
later), and
DG motorgliders is very time-consuming. Since I'm not aware of any
problems
caused
by leaving the main batteries in during trailering in these gliders, I
think
removing and replacing them is likely to cause more problems than it
avoids.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email
me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1