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seagull writes:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:31:40 -0800, "Ted Wagner"
wrote:

Okay ... ignorant but proud pure glider pilot asking here ... what
is "idle thrust"? First cousin of "military intelligence" and "jumbo
shrimp"?

Power levers fully retarded to flight idle. ie: Minimum thrust.

In lay analogy, coasting along with your foot completely _off_ the
car's accelerator pedal with the engine idling at min rpm - or
flying a piston at min throttle setting.

Flight Idle, low power setting, but higher than Ground Idle. Have the
fire go out on an aproach is not a good idea. When you are taxiing it
is only an embaresment, so FI is a few % higher than GI to provide
a better margin, and to compensate some for the ram recovery.

--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

Maule Driver writes:

Ted Wagner wrote:

I nearly fell out of my chair when I read that. The FIRST thing I
was taught in my brief career as a powered flight student was the
contingencies of no engine power from the moment one pushed the
throttle forwarded to the moment one was finished taxiing.

Well, that's a single engine recip approach. With multiple
turbines, multiple simultaneous engine failure is pretty difficult
to achieve I guess - unless you screw up the fuel situation.

It has been done with 767s, Airbusteds, P3s and C-130s. It only
takes a small error and then to not check properly. IE, report
fuel loaded in lbs and have the number close to what the crew
expect in Kgs.

--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

In article ,
says...
On 16 Feb 2005 21:42:11 GMT, Ian Molesworth
wrote:

The only time a jet engine develops zero thrust is when the fire goes
out.

Don't confuse the poor fellow.

Flight idle as it is referred to on the flight deck in flight or "idle
thrust" as by our inquirer is min. thrust, never referred to as zero
thrust or to be confused with same occurring with flameout
(unintentional) or shutdown (intentional).

Same as piston throttle fully closed isn't a dead cut or engine
shutdown, but idle rpm, unless you lean cut/close/fully retard the
mixture, albeit deliberately (shutdown) or indeliberately. (major
****up

Presumably you know that jet engine power lever settings are referred
to by reference of percentile of a peak or max. normal op. %, with
flight idle usually circa 60+%, (shutdown is 0% and the only time a
jet engine should ordinarily be between static and flight idle % is
when transitioning during startup or shutdown), whereas much lower
revving horizontally opposed piston engines as commonly found in light
aeroplane follow the same RPM display conventions as auto engines.

Sheesh! FFS, like I said to the other bloke, don't confuse the poor
fellow with utterly superfluous bull**** presumably intended only as a
display of your own superior knowledge, which in this case falls flat
as it's not only unnecessary, remember KISS, but completely out of
context to the circumstances of the particular incident provoking the
inquiry. ie: The 757 went from "idle thrust (ie: _flight idle_, an
understood to the initiated and technically immaterial to the lay
reader as they'd get the general gist unless they were illiterate or
completely stupid) to FULL power".

If you want to impress everyone with your undoubted technical acumen,
save it for discussions with the likes of your peers, eg: me, in a
more appropriate forum.



--
Duncan

I have heard that the Gimli Glider landing sequence was loaded into the
airlines flight simulators for training purposes and that almost no one
could successfully land the plane the way the pilot did. Can anyone confirm
this story?


wrote in message
...
Maule Driver writes:

Ted Wagner wrote:

I nearly fell out of my chair when I read that. The FIRST thing I
was taught in my brief career as a powered flight student was the
contingencies of no engine power from the moment one pushed the
throttle forwarded to the moment one was finished taxiing.

Well, that's a single engine recip approach. With multiple
turbines, multiple simultaneous engine failure is pretty difficult
to achieve I guess - unless you screw up the fuel situation.

It has been done with 767s, Airbusteds, P3s and C-130s. It only
takes a small error and then to not check properly. IE, report
fuel loaded in lbs and have the number close to what the crew
expect in Kgs.

--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

Haven't heard that one, but know someone to ask. The DFW downburst is flown
frequently with the occassional lucky save.

Frank Whiteley

"Gary Boggs" wrote in message
...
I have heard that the Gimli Glider landing sequence was loaded into the
airlines flight simulators for training purposes and that almost no one
could successfully land the plane the way the pilot did. Can anyone
confirm
this story?


wrote in message
...
Maule Driver writes:

Ted Wagner wrote:

I nearly fell out of my chair when I read that. The FIRST thing I
was taught in my brief career as a powered flight student was the
contingencies of no engine power from the moment one pushed the
throttle forwarded to the moment one was finished taxiing.

Well, that's a single engine recip approach. With multiple
turbines, multiple simultaneous engine failure is pretty difficult
to achieve I guess - unless you screw up the fuel situation.

It has been done with 767s, Airbusteds, P3s and C-130s. It only
takes a small error and then to not check properly. IE, report
fuel loaded in lbs and have the number close to what the crew
expect in Kgs.

--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.

D2 (UAL 777 instructor) says "We don't really do the Gimli Glider scenario,
we do have a dual engine failure in the syllabus. I let the students take
all the way to touch down sometimes. Most of them make it."

Frank

"F.L. Whiteley" wrote in message
...
Haven't heard that one, but know someone to ask. The DFW downburst is
flown
frequently with the occassional lucky save.

Frank Whiteley

"Gary Boggs" wrote in message
...
I have heard that the Gimli Glider landing sequence was loaded into the
airlines flight simulators for training purposes and that almost no one
could successfully land the plane the way the pilot did. Can anyone
confirm
this story?


wrote in message
...
Maule Driver writes:

Ted Wagner wrote:

I nearly fell out of my chair when I read that. The FIRST thing I
was taught in my brief career as a powered flight student was the
contingencies of no engine power from the moment one pushed the
throttle forwarded to the moment one was finished taxiing.

Well, that's a single engine recip approach. With multiple
turbines, multiple simultaneous engine failure is pretty difficult
to achieve I guess - unless you screw up the fuel situation.

It has been done with 767s, Airbusteds, P3s and C-130s. It only
takes a small error and then to not check properly. IE, report
fuel loaded in lbs and have the number close to what the crew
expect in Kgs.

--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.