Another glider crash?

On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 at 9:49:50 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Memory fades but I seem to recall the Blanik's (L-13) brake being a
lever on the floor.* I don't remember how the L-23 brake worked.




On 9/23/2015 12:03 AM, BG wrote:



On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 2:13:54 PM UTC-7, Ron Gleason wrote:


Saratoga NY, news report here

http://wnyt.com/article/stories/s391... dium=twitter


The same thing could happen in a Blanik, except it was the flaps and the spoilers that could be confused. I witnessed two crashes in a blanik, one ended in a ground loop just before a barbed wire fence at El Tiro, and another landed off the end of the runway in the sage brush at AirSailing. Call it tunnel vision or in full panic mode, the pilot kept pulling harder on the flaps as the runway was passing underneath getting shorter all the time.

BG





--

Dan, 5J



On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 at 9:49:50 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Memory fades but I seem to recall the Blanik's (L-13) brake being a
lever on the floor.* I don't remember how the L-23 brake worked.


Yes it was on the floor in the L13. About the same spot as the door handle on a 1974 Chevy Nova. On my first year of gliding i spent most of my days reliving the previous weekends flights. I was daydreaming about this while driving one day and needed to slow down for an upcoming turn. I pulled up on the door handle to break. Luckily it was a left hand turn!
Kerry

I am sorry to say I happened to confuse diverse levers in diverse types of gliders in the past.
* I once pulled back on the release lever (it's not a knob, it really looks like an airbrake lever) instead of opening the spoilers in a Rhönlerche;
* I did the same with the flaps instead of the airbrakes in a L-13 Blanik;
* I put the flaps from positive to negative instead of closing the airbrakes on a Janus during finals when the airspeed became too low (that one allmost crashed the glider, I corrected my mistake at the very last moment; the situation arose while my pupil in front was making an approach with braking parachute, full positive flaps and full airbrakes, and was slow in closing the airbrakes when I asked him to do so to maintain airspeed - of course, I should have had the left hand on one of the levers, but I wasn't ready, being too confident in the abilities of my pupil).

The levers I wrongly used had a common characteristic: they were the upper, what you could call the "most obvious", lever. When under stress, that's where your hand is going automatically.

I really think, from a safety point of view, that the "most critical" lever should also be the "most obvious" lever. In my book, that's the airbrake lever. I don't like the ergonomics of the levers you have to rotate to be able to use.

Flap levers need detents of some kind so you can set different positions
and take your hand off the lever. In my LAK-17a, the flap and gear
levers must be rotated to move the lock out of the slot to move the
lever. The dive brake lever does not need to be rotated, however you
might scrape your knuckles by simply pulling it back. Rotating the dive
brake lever gets my knuckles away from the canopy side wall. MY flap
lever is at the top because I use it most often and that's where I like
it. Others may prefer other configurations.

Cheers!

On 9/25/2015 7:24 AM, wrote:
I am sorry to say I happened to confuse diverse levers in diverse types of gliders in the past.
* I once pulled back on the release lever (it's not a knob, it really looks like an airbrake lever) instead of opening the spoilers in a Rhönlerche;
* I did the same with the flaps instead of the airbrakes in a L-13 Blanik;
* I put the flaps from positive to negative instead of closing the airbrakes on a Janus during finals when the airspeed became too low (that one allmost crashed the glider, I corrected my mistake at the very last moment; the situation arose while my pupil in front was making an approach with braking parachute, full positive flaps and full airbrakes, and was slow in closing the airbrakes when I asked him to do so to maintain airspeed - of course, I should have had the left hand on one of the levers, but I wasn't ready, being too confident in the abilities of my pupil).

The levers I wrongly used had a common characteristic: they were the upper, what you could call the "most obvious", lever. When under stress, that's where your hand is going automatically.

I really think, from a safety point of view, that the "most critical" lever should also be the "most obvious" lever. In my book, that's the airbrake lever. I don't like the ergonomics of the levers you have to rotate to be able to use.

--
Dan, 5J

A mutual friend (thanks, Peter) mentions the DG-300 gear-instead-of-spoilers handle mishap....due to wrong-handle grabbing. There is a great write up in SOARING as a recap of that event. June 2006, Is Conservative Safe? and then July 2006, 525 Extremely Dangerous Flights.

The article(s)address several items that precipitated/contributed to that event: 1) complacence in a 'normal' landing, 2) abrupt choice to alter the approach to practice another technique mid-pattern; 3) failure to look for spoiler extension after acknowledging "this isn't decelerating the way I want", 4) I won't stop on the airport, so I should use an outside-premises-alternative,ie. never thinking that the take-off emergency place could be used in a landing situation.

Jim Skydell would be pleased to know that we are still using his recap of his aircraft loss to add to knowledge and perhaps prevent another repetition.. The big thing?? Seek training that allows you more flexibility in experiences.
Jim comments on the perception of fixation.

The nominal training in emergency procedures in (American) soaring is the source of our accident rate. Being an 'easy' solo or rating sign-off or less than rigorous in flight reviews might get more folks launched.... but it is the landings that are doing the damage. The failed landings.

It can happen to any of us.
Help each other improve. The discussions here are valuable. They urge us to review our own protocols and perhaps review our actions and procedures.

Fly safely, train often.
Cindy

I went back and read the two articles Cindy mentioned, good stuff! While we might all think we would never make such a mistake, real world has shown anyone can screw up at anytime. So, keep up the training, be challenged and never stop thinking.

Fly safe guys!


On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 at 6:41:10 PM UTC-7, CindyB wrote:
A mutual friend (thanks, Peter) mentions the DG-300 gear-instead-of-spoilers handle mishap....due to wrong-handle grabbing. There is a great write up in SOARING as a recap of that event. June 2006, Is Conservative Safe? and then July 2006, 525 Extremely Dangerous Flights.

The article(s)address several items that precipitated/contributed to that event: 1) complacence in a 'normal' landing, 2) abrupt choice to alter the approach to practice another technique mid-pattern; 3) failure to look for spoiler extension after acknowledging "this isn't decelerating the way I want", 4) I won't stop on the airport, so I should use an outside-premises-alternative,ie. never thinking that the take-off emergency place could be used in a landing situation.

Jim Skydell would be pleased to know that we are still using his recap of his aircraft loss to add to knowledge and perhaps prevent another repetition. The big thing?? Seek training that allows you more flexibility in experiences.
Jim comments on the perception of fixation.

The nominal training in emergency procedures in (American) soaring is the source of our accident rate. Being an 'easy' solo or rating sign-off or less than rigorous in flight reviews might get more folks launched.... but it is the landings that are doing the damage. The failed landings.

It can happen to any of us.
Help each other improve. The discussions here are valuable. They urge us to review our own protocols and perhaps review our actions and procedures..

Fly safely, train often.
Cindy

I've gotten into the habit of banging on the LS3 gear lever with my fist as part of my landing routine. You really can bang on it when it is up, so its a physical feedback check. I also painted red and green dots on it. But fist banging is better.

Roberto

On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 3:13:54 PM UTC-6, Ron Gleason wrote:
Saratoga NY, news report here

http://wnyt.com/article/stories/s391... dium=twitter

I've gotten into the habit of banging on the LS3 gear lever with my fist as part of my landing routine. You really can't bang on it when it is up, so its a physical feedback check. I also painted red and green dots on it. But for me, fist banging is a better confirmation. Plus it has the benefit of perhaps kicking it over center.

Roberto

Roberto